Quote Simon Smith " You can think this is all a ploy to get you to buy but I am being totally honest."

You claim you are being totally(?) honest. And yet you are not sure, if other people think this is all a ploy to 'get them to buy the book'?

I wasn't thinking it was all a ploy But now I am not so sure because I am now questioning your honesty. Totally honest?

Are you always totally honest when doubting your own thoughts?

Quote Simon Smith "Rintu is NOT there to simply take your money"
NO? So then why do you bring it up specifically in that frame?

Quote Simon Smith "he genuinely wants you to succeed as well"
Really? Genuinely enough to give us a copy of the book so we can decide for ourselves if it is worth paying for?

Quote Simon Smith "He has personally replied to all the emails I have sent with detailed information which I think will prove invaluable to my telesales role."

Isn't the book good enough? Do you telesales in forums?

Quote Simon Smith "If you want ne to email you personally I can forward some of his emails to you."

You seem very, very keen..... why are you sooo..... keen?

Quote Simon Smith "Can't say fairer than that !."
Are you sure about that? because I am starting to wonder.

Perhaps you should answer this Rintu so we can get another sob story about accusation of 'sock puppets'

I've just seen this thread, and only because Rintu sent me a link wondering what I am going to do about it.

It looks to me like Rintu asked a few different people to sign up and review/promote his new e-book. It looks to me like they all rushed in at once and didn't think or care very much about how that would look.

The first guy seems to have just cut and pasted his review from an e-mail - he didn't even re-format it to fit the forum - and he also straight away ignored the rule about not posting signatures. I doubt he knew the rule, but that's kinda the point. He didn't write a post introducing himself, as I recommend in the welcome e-mail; he didn't add many details to his profile or a photo, as I also recommend. I'd say he joined quickly and purely to promote Rintu's e-book. Do you think that's a fair comment?

The next post is by someone else who also joined at the same time, also ignored all the recommendations and also only posted to promote the e-book.

Then the next post is by someone else who also joined at the same time, also ignored all the recommendations and also only posted to promote the e-book.

And so it goes on.

Of course people were going to be suspicious of that pattern and I think they're even right to feel manipulated. I believe Rintu when he says he encouraged several different people to post their reviews here, but I also think it was a mistake to be so cynical about it.

It ultimately boils down to respecting the community. It's one thing when a few established members all post similar reviews of an event because we know they all went on that event together, and if they all say it was great then it probably was great. When a group of new people arrive en-masse and instantly start raving about a product we've never heard of... while ignoring everything else that's going on here... then that not only looks a bit odd, it also suggests they're only here to sell us something.

The people round here aren't daft. (Well, not all of us! ) If you try to manipulate us, you maybe reap what you sow.

I have an idea for reviews that I've been talking about for a while so maybe I'll bring that idea forward. Watch out for an announcement later on.

I just love the internet. All life is there but it is different.

There is almost nothing it can’ t do and it’s cheap.

Rintu, you are trying to flog your book and you have asked some people to help you. Problem is every arsehole in the world has cottoned on to the fact that they can do the same.

But the internet is clever. People have wised up. It has developed Netiquette. Fail to appreciate that at you peril.

Marketing and sales requires skills foremost amongst these is understanding your target audience I think.

I am sure James L will pop in soon and say a thing or two on how it might be done effectively.

As they say in my neck of the woods “I think someone is pulling my plonker”.

If you want to market on the internet I suggest you do a little research on how you might do it effectively and stop taking the piss.

John

Don't just cross a river, cross it bearing fire!

bobharper wrote:

The books great.

... For those who haved posted sarcastic comments (and you know who you are) you may want to keep in mind that NLP is about having attitude not an attitude.

Bob

Sad to say, that's exactly the kind of comment I'd expect from one of Rintu's "disciples".

In the first place your statement doesn't make sense. What is "attitude" as distinct from "an attitude"?

More importantly, what neither Rintu nor any of his fans, apparently including yourself, seem to have grasped is the simple fact that all feedback is feedback, and if you (generic) wait for feedback to be delivered in a manner you approve of then you (generic) may never learn the things you need to learn.

So you (generic) can whine about not being treated as you'd wish to be treated/see someone/something else treated, but the simple fact in all of this is that the posts that launched this thread received responses commensurate with their contents - as far as the responders were concerned.

If someone writes in to say how wonderful some book on persuasion skills is, and how much they've gotten from it, the post - as happened here - falls rather flat if the style is about as subtle as an irritated elephant.

If someone writes in to say how wonderful Rintu is, and Rintu turns up and has a hissy fit, then Rintu really can't complain if people take more notice of what he actually DOES rather than what someone else has said about him.

If four or five Rintu fans all turn up as new contributors to the forum, and have some kind of daft little conversation between themselves about how unbelievably great Rintu's book and teachings are - out of a clear blue sky - is it really so difficult to understand why some regular members of the forum might see this as a rather incompetent conspiracy, even if the forum hadn't been infested by several sockpuppets shortly beforehand?

It was seriously incompetent, regardless of who did it or why, and I not only stand by the people who ragged the alleged posters*, I repeat my earlier statement that I personally find the whole business, not least your own contribution - with its sanctimonious "you know who you are" - to be all the information I need to convince me to stay well away from Rintu, his products and his followers.

(*As I said before, I have no idea whether these people were sockpuppets or not, and I don't much care, but I'm certainly not convinced that they weren't given the evidence offered thus far.)

Bandler and/or Grinder once wrote, as nearly as I can recall their exact words:

"We call ourselves modelers. We don't pay attention to what people say they do, we model what they actually do."

The contents of your post, Bob, like those that went before - and however sincere they may be - fall under the heading: "what they say they do"

The form of the posts sent by Rintu, yourself, et al. fall (IMO) under the heading: "What they actually do."

Maybe it's time for the hypers and protesters to start taking note of their own behaviour - and why it might have elicited the responses it did - rather than trying to attach responsibility to everyone except themselves.

You know, this being an NLP forum, an' all.



Be well

Andy B.

If the author of an electronic persuasion book can't persuade me to buy the book then I don't want it.

Crying like a baby does not persuade me or anyone I know.

He was here and he couldn't persuade anyone about anything, as far as I could tell.

I am sorry...

z8000783 wrote:

As they say in my neck of the woods “I think someone is pulling my plonker”.

Huh?

russianbear wrote:

Huh?

Don't worry about it. You're in a different neck of the woods.

John

Agriculture is best, enterprise is acceptable and always avoid being on a fixed income

z8000783 wrote:

Don't worry about it. You're in a different neck of the woods.

John

Agriculture is best, enterprise is acceptable and always avoid being on a fixed income

But I could end up in your neck of the woods and it may come in handy to know what a plonker is. What would happen if a nice young lady approaches me in Bristol and asks if I would like her to wash my plonker? Or, if I'm on the tube in London and a cutie inquires as to whether or not the plonker I am carrying is mine, or someone else's. Or, if I'm strolling merrily through the streets of Kent, does my plonker blow in the breeze?

I just looked it up....it means dick!!!!! Ugh!

russianbear wrote:

But I could end up in your neck of the woods and it may come in handy to know what a plonker is. What would happen if a nice young lady approaches me in Bristol and asks if I would like her to wash my plonker? Or, if I'm on the tube in London and a cutie inquires as to whether or not the plonker I am carrying is mine, or someone else's. Or, if I'm strolling merrily through the streets of Kent, does my plonker blow in the breeze?

I just looked it up....it means dick!!!!! Ugh!

Would you now like to go back and review your questions in the light of that new information especially in relation to your new lady friend in Bristol.

John

You can often find in rivers what you cannot find in oceans

z8000783 wrote:

Would you now like to go back and review your questions in the light of that new information especially in relation to your new lady friend in Bristol.

John

You can often find in rivers what you cannot find in oceans

John,
Sorry to disappoint you. I don't actually have a lady friend in Bristol.....yet!!!!

Paula said playfully, "Can I play with your plentiful plonker please?"

how to post a review.......WITHOUT raising undue suspicion or skepticism

1)Tell forum readers what qualifies you to post the review if you are new to the forum
a)this would definitely mean mentioning other trainings on the topic that you went to and finished that provided the "know how" to speak credibly on the topic


b)this would mean mentioning OTHER books on the same subject matter and why this new book is BETTER or DIFFERENT

my 2 cents

Jim "who hates shills and sockpuppets more than anyone"

Hi Jim,

Interesting view, and while agreeing with you, I had a question.

Would that mean if you have read one book, or done one training on a topic, you cannot review that product or recommend it to others? eg. comments such as 'I found this helpful/unhelpful because......' 'If you tell me what you are looking for, I can give you some idea as to whether you might get it from the product.' Only expert reviews should be allowed on the forum?

Just a late night thought.

I'm also not a shill/sockpuppet fan, and I was wondering why the above post now, on a shill thread that had died before you resus'd it !

re:"Would that mean if you have read one book, or done one training on a topic, you cannot review that product or recommend it to others? eg. comments such as 'I found this helpful/unhelpful because......' 'If you tell me what you are looking for, I can give you some idea as to whether you might get it from the product.' Only expert reviews should be allowed on the forum?"

Olive

ahhhh.......someone who wants it 'spelled out" for her!

how about:
beginner review = read "1 other book in category and or attended 1 complete training in same"

intermediate reviewer = "read 2-3 books in same category and or complete 2-3 training in same"

OR

use your own judgement, REALIZING that mileage may vary and that the more training/books read on subject, the more credible the reviewer probably is. and that mentioning that background in a review IF new to forum will dispel much.........skepticism

(Yes I know....this posting should probably start another thread somewhere else on this website)

gstandard wrote:

"... use your own judgement, REALIZING that mileage may vary and that the more training/books read on subject, the more credible the reviewer probably is. and that mentioning that background in a review IF new to forum will dispel much.........skepticism

Hear, here!

I am frequently amazed by reviews of NLP books (especially the awful ones) which start something like:

"This is the first book I've read on this subject and it's really excellent."

Only equalled by the reviews of rubbish books which draw reviews like:

"I've read many books on this subject and this is easuily the best."

Thinks: What kind of crap were they reading before???

JMO



Be well

Andy B.

Hey guys, Just discovered this site after looking for decent reviews for that black persuasion black book, needless to say I dont think I'll buy a copy because of the addiction that might follow to purchase 17 odd thousand copies.

Anyway Im new to all this and am trying to get this language mastery down, so my question to you pros is when you first started out what exercises did you do to make it seem natiral in your everyday language, Im using some flash cards shuffling them and writting patterns but still finding it hard to communicate this way in everyday language any helpful tips or advice would be much appreciated.

John

path2mastery wrote:

Im using some flash cards shuffling them and writting patterns but still finding it hard to communicate this way in everyday language any helpful tips or advice would be much appreciated.

how many patterns are you practicing simultaneously with your flash cards ? if you break down the task to say 2 or even just one pattern at a time the task is simplified.

theNLPcompany wrote:

I agree that it would have been more useful if I had told the people I asked to post to also state I had invited them to NLP Connections and to post on the review, but only Chirs chose to encorage them to make other posts and verify themselves. Something that would have sorted out their ligitimacy.

No, what would have been really smart would have been a little upfront honesty. Something like:

"Hi folks, my name's Rintu Basu and I've written a book on persuasion skills. I think it's pretty hot stuff, but of course I don't expect you to take my word for it, so I've invited some of the people who have already read the book to post their opinions."

Then you might have picked people who had actually learnt some persuasion skills write in instead of the collection of, as Bridget commented, the totally stilted, unconvincing posts that were actually sent in.

After that, in the face of criticism you might have shown at least a passing understanding of the presupposition that "the meaning of your communication is the response it evokes."

Whether these people were or weren't sockpuppets really wasn't the point. The fact that they managed to make so many people doubt their veracity IS the point, and one which so far I haven't seen any of you deal with.

theNLPcompany wrote:

People on this forum just chose to make what I consider rude and abusive comments rather than check out any details. I'm fairly sure there are better ways of dealing with a "reasonable assumption."

Well that's fine - for you. But I doubt you'll ever be much of a persuader if you always put the responsibility for your misjudgements on other people. And THAT is why I personally wouldn't accept a copy of your book if you were giving it away.

Not only do you - on your showing here - NOT walk the talk, you don't even talk the talk.

But no doubt you'll find some excuse why I'm wrong. And your followers will go around posting negative votes on any post that disagrees with you. As though voting could alter the facts.



Be well

Honest Abe's NLP Emporium

Hello everybody,

Just a quick one. I recently joined this community and I have found it very useful. Indeed I asked for some guidance when I joined and received some excellent advice. Still slogging my way through many books and I feel that I am getting there. Still have Sleight of Mouth to contend with so bracing myself for that :-)

I noticed this post and felt I am in a position to comment. I have been in sales for years and indeed as mentioned in my 'hello' post I bought Rintu's book. Among several others :-) Couple that with the sales/persuasion training I have had over the years, I feel that I can give an honest review.

I found the book very useful and interesting. Some of the patterns it mentions are very effective and take into account some of the finer and more subtle points of language. I underwent some NLP sales training a few years back and this is a step up from that. I think this book focuses more on the processes involved rather than a 'script' so from that point of view it is very valuable. Rintu's style in writing the book is to do it in the language of the patterns. Although useful as a worked example, it can seem a bit of a repetitive slog at times, but I guess it is simply to impart the knowledge over and over again.

I have read a lot of sales books and this is defintely one of the better ones. I have read fewer NLP persuasion books as I am just starting out, but would say that this is definitely one of the better ones if only for the simplicity and ease of use (despite its occasional repetitive nature).

All in all, based on my particular knowledge base, I would give this book a 9 out of 10. Once again however, I must emphasise that this is pre-dominantly based on my SALES reading experience and not my NLP persuasion experience. Once I have read a few more, hopefully I will be able to judge it further.

I hope I have obeyed the rules of the forum with this post.

Additionally, my first question in my introductory post was recommendations on books on persuasion. Some people were kind enough to suggestions and I would appreciate it if any of the other posters on here had any suggestions?

Also, I am considering taking a Practitioner course. I am based in London and I know there are good trainers and bad trainers so would also appreciate suggestions on this.

Hope I am not pushing my luck!

Thanks

Jamie

JP London wrote:

Hello everybody,

I have read a lot of sales books and this is defintely one of the better ones. I have read fewer NLP persuasion books as I am just starting out, but would say that this is definitely one of the better ones if only for the simplicity and ease of use (despite its occasional repetitive nature).

Jamie

Which other NLP persuasion books have you read?

It would help if you could tell us how this compares with the other NLP persuasion books that you have read. Particularly "Persuasion Engineering". This would give us a point of reference.

southnick wrote:

Which other NLP persuasion books have you read?

It would help if you could tell us how this compares with the other NLP persuasion books that you have read. Particularly "Persuasion Engineering". This would give us a point of reference.

And/or "Selling with Integrity", "Influencing with Integrity", "Selling with NLP". Though I did notice that you say you are relatively new to NLP, so I'm not suggesting you should read them by yesterday ;¬)

Just two other points:

1. I'm not clear whether you are saying you think Rintu's book is good on persuasion, or good on NLP and persuasion.

2. FWIW, if I remember the discussion correctly I think the possible value of Rintu's book was trampled underfoot by the incompetent attempts by his fans to hype the book on this list. You, or anyone else, can come on this forum and tell us that some book on persuasion skills is brilliant - but why (in the case of those other guys) should anyone believe it if the people claiming to have benefitted from reading the book don't seem capable of selling bottles of cooled water to tourists visiting the pyramids?

The whole thing reminded me of L. Ron Hubbard's famous (infamous?) presentation of the first "Clear". In front of a packed audience the young woman who had allegedly upped her mental powers by taking Hubbard's training, couldn't even remember what colour his tie was once he had turned his back to her.

Oops!

Be well

Andy B.