What is your interest in this topic Rich? Are you involved in university level teaching of NLP or had previous experience of it?

Sure, I have been. I knew about NLP before studying for a masters at university, and during my course I attended the NLP push that one of the business faculty Drs was into. I noticed a lot of pretty much understandable skepticism towards it, from many departments, and many students. Its like placing a useful success mechanism in a place where success isn't a priority.

I have worked in business before that, and as far as I can see, success is best attained in an environment where success can flourish.

University is fine for quals, beering up, getting laid, meeting uni contacts etc. Its not an environment for real success though, unless you think producing a masters thesis is a measure of success.

NLP to me seems best learned when you are going through the rigours of real life success building. Thats when people are ready for the NLP approach to keep them reslient.

The university environment tends to make the sneering variety of critical thinking a default practice. Its a sticky situation. I'd simply move to another environment.

Rich

Oh! Rich in Projection,

PLEASE READ ALL AND CONSIDER MY GENUINE GIFT TO YOU.

It wasn't I shouting or in ego-thinking or behaviour. Just smiling - not AT you, but with the intensity of recognising again your obstacle-blockages to learnings.

Sincere apologies for the non-scientific, though totally valid language. Please read on til the end?

I really haven't ever considered conducting Seminars or facilitating any other level of Educational Learning...to "look good"!! It serves NO-ONE'S purpose or learning outcome. What people think about me is not my business - it's theirs.

Therefore, after throughout recognising the "game" you've constructed here, joining it for a while, and still retaining a real, sense of objective educational opportunity (which you may not have recognised from the many very well informed responses) .......

.....could I genuinely offer my considered objectivity:

1. It's obvious that you are on the threshold of a major "Step Up" in Life

(a) Why not try applying NLP and conduct an objective validation of your intended or desired Outcome. I assume you're well-trained and so humbly suggest you self-apply S.M.A.R.T to validate and clarify it as a well-informed Outcome/Goal? Once there.......ask yourself.......

(b) "What would (a) do for me?"

(c) "What would (b) give me?"

(d) "What would (c) allow me to BE?"

If necessary keep sequentially repeating (a) then (b) then (c) until you have YOUR Highest Outcome.

2. It's also obvious that your on the threshold of "Stepping Down" from your past, but hanging on "for grim death" to the perceived "comfort zone" that has continually "punished" you so well and so "deservedly".

When you've recognised (Scientifically experienced Re-Cognition or Re-Cogniscience) your Highest Desired Outcome....ask yourself......

(a) "What stops me? What else stops me? and What else stops me?"

(b) For each Limitation or Obstacle the ask yourself:
"What do I want instead?" "What works for me?"

(c) Repeat the sequence (a) then (b) then (a) then (b) ...etc............

.......UNTIL THE ANSWERS TO 1. ARE CONGRUENT WITH, AND REFLECT THOSE IN 2.

You'll then have simultaneously Stepped Up and Down into the deepest Real Self Depths that is the only real Truth....thus the only real Science!

In anyone's thinking, language and action, this is as near to the TRUTH (The Meaning of Science) you'll get.

It's quite simple: Practice this Scientific Method - A real and effective NLP Diagnostic Tool: Eliminate ALL the ingredients, obstacles and "fluff" which prevents you from thinking freely, until you're left with the inevitable Truth for you, and you'll "fly" positively and for good. IF you want it!?

Don't give the ego continued satisfaction of holding you in IT'S "comfort zone". Once you've "Stepped Across" the Great Divide that is YOUR TRUTH (Real Science), you'll cease to be separated from your True Self, and this debate here will be rendered redundant........another illusory obstacle to your quality of life would then be recycled and re-constituted, "scientifically" for your own good....... Oh! ..... and for everybody else's good too.

Hope you can see, feel, smell, touch, hear, sense the smile that this Truthful Science has given me for NLP/Universal/University Teaching this past 25 years (and on-going). The Ego-Anger needed to be "bottomed" and "topped" way back then, so as not to keep a lid on the gas jar that was my "false emotional life experiment".

Why wait, Rich? Get truly Scientific!! For you.....!!!!!

Travel your path well. It's the same one as all of us, since we're of the same One Mind.

Re-Cognition and a Change of Mind is THE ONE SINGLE AND REAL "Scientific" Miracle.

David S.

Good grief, I feel like I'm talking to that toaster on Red Dwarf

MMMm much as I know how enjoyable the scent of toast can be, can we get back to answering Kimberley who asked.....

KimberleyD wrote:

Hi there,

I am interested in the application of NLP in teaching university students -
does anyone have any experience in this area? And could you please point me in the direction of any books/etc that would be useful to help me to learn how to use NLP in teaching in adults?
I have heard of the book "NLP for Teachers" but I believe this is aimed at a younger audience - would there be a difference in targeting older students?

Also does anyone know where I could go about finding academic papers/journals that would help me to research NLP in adults/young adult education?

Thanks in advance!
Kim

Thanks Carole. You've just put the Marmite/Vegemite on the toast, and I'll toast to your suggestion to the return to the real Bread of Heaven offered by Kimberley.

I hope Rich will now take the time to find out what the basics, reality and practice of NLP is, and where it spreads richly in application to both University Educaton and to the Learnings at all levels, for quality of life and change.

Common Sense. It used to be referred to as "using your loaf". Go on Rich, "NEED it" and allow it to rise in the heat of you. And then taste it!!

Meanwhile, Carole, Feed our souls with your activating a real discussion. Give us a slice of the loaf we're all part of.

David S.

Hi Carol, and Kim

Yes, here is the main empirical paper:

Sharpley C.F. (1987). "Research Findings on Neuro-linguistic Programming: Non supportive Data or an Untestable Theory". Communication and Cognition Journal of Counseling Psychology, 1987 Vol. 34, No. 1: 103-107,105

It concludes that after lots of testing, NLP gives a no-show on efficacy, and discusses NLP's pseudoscientific (untestable) nature. (the scientific viewpoint)

Grant J. Devilly (2005) Power Therapies and possible threats to the science of psychology and psychiatry Australian and New Zealand Journal of Psychiatry Vol.39 p.437

This updates on NLP with reference to other similar developments and concludes NLP remains a pseudoscientific belief system. (again science viewpoint).

Druckman, D., and J.A. Swets, eds. (1988) Enhancing Human Performance: Issues, Theories, and Techniques. Committee on Techniques for the Enhancement of Human Performance, National Research Council. Washington, D.C.: National Academy Press.

Thats the applied psychology practitioner view. It includes NLP as a no-show on efficacy also. It did say that NLP may be tested some more, but there was no follow up after they found the concepts didn't match with modern neuroscience.

If you go the NLP route, then you will need to take into account the above perspectives.

If you have to go the empirically supported route, you may be interested in the basic idea of belief and perspective use in teaching though. In which case you can still do that with reference to non-NLP material and sources such as e.g.:

Cognitive Psychology and Instruction - Roger Bruning - 9780130947949 - Psychology - Experimental Psychology - Pearson Education Schweiz AG - Der Fachverlag fuer Bildungsmedien

Its pretty positive, and strongly rigorous. Just another perspective in my book though.


Cheers
Rich

Dear Kim and other genuinely interested folk,

Academic papers on the value of academic work is a worthwhile theoretical exercise. However, for me, the proof of the pudding is in the eating, and in it's digestion for nutritional value: ie. How does NLP interrelate to any level of University Training Education, for the purposes of enhancing the lives of students and the world.

I have had the privilege of experiencing the change of thinking my students have both welcomed and have applied practically to making a difference and effecting change in a constantly changing working world.

Creating Learning envirenments to this end, for enriching students' very real professions and lives, has been a passion of mine over 25+ years.. And, through that, they have made a positive impact in the real world of measurable Outcomes. Continued feedback to me clarifies that, and highlights NLP blatantly and effectively at work.

Examples: In-service or prospective Private or Public Sector Undergraduate and Post-graduate "Trainees", as well as Executive MBA students, have all shown exuberance and real willingness in applying learnings in Situational Leadership, Managing Organisational Change, User Involvement/Community Participation, Continuing Professional Development.

How?

1.Through being encouraged to know their True Selves and their massive latent talent for making a difference, through Applied Sociology, Social Anthropology, Psychology, Metanoic Leadership; Life Coaching and Counselling - ALL of which have real and spiritual congruence with NLP and ACIM;

2. Through then appreciating the massive wealth of literature on Personal Change and Effectiveness & Greatness (eg: Hersey, Blanchard and Johnson; Senge; Steve Covey; Jim Collins - and not forgetting the richness of combining those with Michael Grinder's and Tony Robbins's recent work variously on: Charisma, Unlimited Personal Power, etc.

3. Then using motivational tools which are both sensitive to, and which eclectically inter-link all the above, especially in direct application to Problem Solving, Conflict Management, Decision Making and Change Management.

The key is in how (a) Theories out of applied research; and (b) motivational tools for practice; combine, eclectically in direct and relevant application to the real world. NLP is at the heart of this work.

If you want to know more about how all this works, please feel free to email me direct on: davidsmiracles@btinternet.com

David S.

Its just one of those things. I just would prefer to use NLP in more accepting situations.

Your choice of course Rich. Another way of looking at that is that it's precisely the challenging situations that we need to be getting into. My experience here in Wales is that Aberystwyth University are running support seminars for students that are NLP-based (just not NLP-labeled). I used to work in in staff development there and was hoping to offer them some seminars, only to find they already have a member of staff who is a Master Prac. and understandably they prefer to use her.

Academics will often view anything that is claimed to be quick and easy with suspicion in my experience - and I know sometimes I get fired up and put too much emphasis on 'easy change'. As Chris pointed out, much of NLP has been developed from other sources and the evidence for effectiveness of many of the component parts of NLP is out there. For me, if it works it works and the 'evidence' (other then the change itself!) can come later, but it's no good approaching a university with that attitude.

My new focus is NLP in education and the health service so it's encouraging to read of the work others are doing. Has the University of Surrey project been mentioned? Didn't spot it in the thread, maybe because I need more coffee :-)

Yes Ian

I have adjusted my view.

The exploration of the neuroscience view thread may hold even more possibilities for you to explore:

http://www.nlpconnections.com/talk-a...ence-view.html

We have been using De Bono's six hats method to look at the neuroscience view with positive forward movement in mind.

There are some interesting possibilities. In general from my own experiences at Surrey Uni, I discovered that I was using pseudoscientific argument to support my interest in NLP. In fact, I benefitted hugely by losing a long argument with some neuroscientists that I met. The exploration was helpful and I was able to recover from erroneous thinking.

In my communications here, I discovered that NLP people in general seem to have a very low level of scientific literacy. They seem largely to be scientifically illiterate (my judgment). Of course I was in the same boat.

It looks as though the problem itself is systemic, though I do believe there are solutions. One such solution is to try to understand the nature of pseudoscience. NLP groups unfortunately, do seem to fit the bill for pseudoscience as they display many of those characteristics:

http://teachpsych.org/resources/e-bo...4/eit04-06.pdf

Considering the rather dire state of communications, things may only get better as long as NLP people can find ways to avoid making pseudoscientific and logically fallacious arguments and statements.

Feel free to explore the possibilities

Rich

Hi Ian.

Very interesting and incisive points you make.

I've very stimulatingly developed a process of integrating NLP into "academic/theory-based-on-practice" teachings and learnings with Undergrad and Post-grad MSc in Health Practice group at Birmingham City University: (1) for them to identify their Preferred Personal Outcomes, (2) for their application to Motivating Leadership Effectiveness according to their organisations' and especially clients' Needs, and (3) for them to appreciate the congruence of the two.

It's had quite an effect! On completion of the Module on Situational Leadership and Change Management in Health Care, in 3 weeks time, this mix of "mature" practitioners, and full-time "trainees" (variously in Health Promotion and Public Health, Psychotherapy and Counselling), they'll complete an applied/academic Assignment - assessment of which will assume both obvious and more subtle NLP application. And they've all almost got it now!

I'm also Visiting Lecturer at the Greenwich School of Management, delivering intensive Modules and facilitating Continuing Professional Development in Health Service Management with Plymouth and Hull Executive MBA students (an ecelcectic group from across all Clinical and Managerial professions) who are based in the Greater London Area. (a) Situational Leadership and Change, and (b) User Involvement/Community Participation for Managerial Effectiveness; are the foci, and NLP techniques are embedded congruently with the knowlege base of tried and tested teachings and learnings.

The GOOD that can come of using the powerful and humble NLP tools in applications, benefit students - THEY SAY - so much. I particularly get great joy out of applying NLP wisdom and making the tools come alive. Faclitated Compassionately, I get to see real life in the students' eyes, and feel and hear their coming alive!

NLP itself enables us to be S.M.A.R.T enough to add processes to ensure and enable students themselves practice until they gain the expertise too. This Personal Development in Self, Situational Leadership and Learnership, are inseparable, and learners thrive on a desire to get that.

Keep up the positive work at Aber. Keep sharing.

David S.