If any Mental Health Care workers have had training in NLP here can you tell me what applications you have found most useful in your work?

If you were to receive the perfect training for your staff or yourself in mental health from the perspective of a care worker what elements would be there?

What would you expect the training to consist of in terms of NLP?

Any help appreciated

Nina

Hi Nina,

Thanks for posting this query, in which I have a high degree of personal and professional investment. FWIW I am a qualified mental health worker who has worked on the fringes of, and in the heart of psychiatry and the NHS since 1985 in various guises. My first NLP training was in 1989. The NHS has provided me with no NLP training - I have sought it all independently, and have met far too few health care providers on trainings, sadly, for whatever reasons.

virtualAngel wrote:

If any Mental Health Care workers have had training in NLP here can you tell me what applications you have found most useful in your work?

I am sitting here going through a glossary of NLP Terms from some training trying to weed out what has not been useful at some time or other. At the risk of sounding cute, I would say just about any aspect of NLP has been useful in some which way.

Before diving headlong into what could be a very long post indeed, I would be interested in what motivates your post exactly ? I would say that the answer to your inquiry gets complicated by the system quite quickly. Any intervention offered depends on the clinical context, the orientation and function of the Team, particularly the governing psychiatrist if there is one, the beliefs about care that the Service User brings into treatment i.e. what they want or expect, their family/ social situation, attitude to medication etc.

Much of mental health care is about prevention of real or perceived harm to the public or individual as much if not more so than realisation of human potential and getting better. So much so they had to enshrine how folk might "get better" in recent DoH Policy, and endorse "The Recovery Model", or "Positive Risk Taking Approach" to move away from the historical defensive and restrictive practices that are still common place.

If you were to receive the perfect training for your staff or yourself in mental health from the perspective of a care worker what elements would be there?

To second guess you, on the relatively rare occasions when I have been asked by the NHS to provide NLP "taster" training to care providers, I have limited it to broad brush strokes about the approach rather than specific applications. I think it depends on how much time you intend to spend or are allowed with a group, and what supervision or follow up arrangements post training may or may not be in place.

What would you expect the training to consist of in terms of NLP?

In terms of limited training to a group, the elements I consider essential are, NLP Presuppositions, representational systems, well formed outcomes and rapport skills, in terms of basic applications. In terms of what training would most benefit the Service Users, were practitioners to have it, as well as those, I would include introduction to the concept of modeling. I think some of the worst abuses of psychiatry come from experts drawing their diagnostic conclusions from very limited questioning and face to face time, and then diving into intervention without better appreciation of how the patient does the problem in the first place.

With a bit more time, move quickly onto the meta model and anchoring. Then again how could predicates, the Milton Model or submodalities and reframing be overlooked at that point ? And more indeed about modeling ? And so you are more or less straight away into a course that approaches the syllabus put forward by many training organisations for Practitioner Level Qualification.

I have been able to get more across to interested students in long term mentorship relationships through education, observation and supervision.

Over time I have worked in many contexts, with many different practitioners of various disciplines, and have had the free reign at times to practice more or less as I see fit, and at other times been banned from having any further therapeutic contact with the patient (the psychiatrist there really couldn't handle the results and objected to the NLP techniques). Generally I would describe the mental health system as restrictive rather than facilitative, both of patients and employees.

Before training mental health workers to do stuff to patients, I invite them to consider applications on themselves. By this, I mean issues such as state management in both the acute stress brought on by crisis situations, and the slow burning chronic stress of working in mental health settings for extended periods. I think the NLP approach has stacks to offer workers in terms of staying motivated, curious and open to learning in terms of chosen careers as well as the extensive menu of Client interventions. How do (some) workers sustain these (and other) desirable qualities over a 20+ year period ? Who are our mental health heroes ?

If you want to train generic care providers with NLP application skills that they can then use freely with Service Users, there is also a training agenda I think for their managers, medical teams and health service commissioners. In turn that means influencing politicians who will take their cues from public opinion. As well as educating providers, as I have said on other threads, another strand to this is in terms of public education and awareness. When the Service User approaches treatment and demands to see an NLP worker, eventually the system might respond by providing better training opportunities to the workforce. This has happened to an extent with CBT. In my experience it is very very rare that any patient asks about NLP.

To be clear, I applaud and support any efforts to seep NLP approaches into the mental health system. I am however going to end this initial reply here before I get stuck on my soapbox any longer, and miss the mark in terms of what you wanted, Nina. I would happily contribute further to this discussion if you wish as the parameters become better defined, or other issues emerge.

Thanks

MH

Hi Malcolm,

Wow! Thank you for this answer that is so insightful and on the other side of my experience as administrator in the offices of these establishments when I was temping for NHS mostly in Mental Health departments of South London.

The reason I ask is that I have the opportunity to work with a government subsidised agency that has Health Care suppliers as their clients. They are being asked more and more courses for the Health Care staff and I am unclear as to what this system of procurement bases their buying decisions on. Who really cares? I know that from working in the industry the care workers are very caring and actually do amazing work with the patients. But in terms of 'profit motive' what perspective is best adopted in order to pitch the course to? As you mention above the different scenarios, which one of these would best fit the criteria from a 'doing' business with government funded agency perspective?

The course I was going to put forward is something like 'Communication Skills for Health Care workers' - for use with Services Users, other members of staff team etc. For the staff themselves would be 'How to Avoid Burnout' - to help with all the all the issues related to working under stressful conditions - I have personally witnessed how hard these people work and the thankless, undercompensated work they do and I often just wanted to go up to them and say.. 'Hey, let me help you'.. but as a secretary that was not my role and probably would have got reported if spending my time doing relaxation - so this something that I would really enjoy doing. - but is it something I should pitch as a course? What are the business benefits the agency what to hear? What do the government want the agencies to achieve? Do they really care? or is it all just about money to them...? and best bidder?

Other courses could come after that.... like 'Advanced Communication Skills for Care workers' - I have a chance to get in start showing them how NLP works and can be used to create a better Care life all round. They also mentioned that the course has to be accredited.. am I accredited as a Certified Trainer of NLP? When I told them that he seemed to be ok.. but what if it needs to be a proper certification....? he says that 'Certificate of Attendance' is ok... but how would that work with the current licensing of NLP Certifications?

I need to have a basic outline for them by Monday - so a few pointers to start with would be great - then once I am in.. I can suggest other people who I think could work in other parts of the country who are trainers with experience in NLP.

Do you think basic courses for communication would be a good start to get in the door with? and then I could create others when I have seen what goes on more fully.

I would like to also work with the Addictions - and how to offer NLP for those workers - my friend Richard Gray - can mentor me in that as he is the pioneer of the Brooklyn program so I can offer that one later too.

What are the main sections of health care should I think about creating courses for. Two the areas he mentioned were in Dementia and Schizophrenia - I told him that NLP had sprung from these areas.... I getting so excited so need some calm guidance ) The potential for long-term and permanent changes could start here if we are sneaky!

I am also being mentored by Eric Robbie - so looks like I could really do something here )))))

Looking forward to more of your insight - and being a creative agent for change in Mental Health.

Best wishes
Nina x

Hi again Nina,

You outline a good opportunity, I agree, and I will happily collaborate with you via forum if you wish. Your reply raises a whole load of other issues that will, I suspect influence participants' motivations and orientations to what you may be about to offer. I also agree that the initial stages and the outcomes will likely influence the manifestation of your longer term aspirations. Employers at the moment are mostly interested in covering their mandatory responsibilities (Fire, Diversity, Child Protection etc) and gathering information to plug into minimum data sets, and not much more than in this cost saving post recession culture we now find ourselves. Who might pay to attend workshops where the emphasis is on quality I do not know - possibly the participants themselves in pursuit of a better working life ? But not many at full price NLP Training rates would be my guess.

I think the shrewd move is, as you suggest, to have themed workshops rather than a purist NLP agenda, like those you suggest, 'Communication Skills for Health Care workers' and 'Advanced...........' etc. Don't overlook 'Basic.....' by the way. I have and am asked to provide themed training (containing within large chunks of NLP) with far greater frequency than anything with NLP in the title. I like the title to describe the direction of the training also, so while I agree that a workshop such as 'Avoiding Burnout' is interesting and relevant to health care workers, it becomes 'Professional Sustainability' or the like.

Other themes I would suggest to you that might grab workers' interest include matters that are pragmatic and relevant to their work, rather than abstracted and theoretical. The list of what is conspicuously and sadly absent from many professional trainings is extensive. Here are some ideas for starters,

Management of Violence and Aggression - or de-escalation as I call it. This is distinct from Control and Restraint or anything physical, other than getting out of harm's way. I refer to the art of talking people down from highly emotional, volatile or hostile states. NLP wise it can involve the use of outcomes, anchors, direction of attention, negotiation skills etc.

Therapeutic Engagement - More negotiation, rapport, outcomes, personal responsibility (self help) along with a consideration of mission or worker purpose. What is the goal in engagement ? Is it to heal ? control ? supervise ? educate ? All these and others, but it helps the worker and their client if they can be clear about the purpose or the cap that is worn at any one time, and all too often it isn't.

Dealing with difficult colleagues and Working as a Team - A classic and common problem. Also it's about presenting cases to a team of disparate and variously trained professionals well and with credibility.

Forming and maintaining the therapeutic alliance - All too often taken for granted that our professional behaviour inspires clients to tell the truth and all of it.

Breaking bad news, or sharing difficult and sensitive information - again, taken for granted and far from straight forward at times.

Dual Diagnosis or co-morbidity - Issues arising from that heady cocktail of mental health problems, alcohol and drugs. A training black hole in most areas, but a hot cookie for most providers. Training is partly about the clinical issues (which are broadly the same as anywhere else - anxiety is anxiety after all) and largely about worker state management, confidence etc arising from a critical appraisal of worker attitudes (beliefs and values etc).

Interesting also that you mention dementia care. My first pre-seminar experiences with NLP were working with a practitioner of NLP in an end stage dementia unit. I think there is plenty of scope there for applying NLP type thinking and installing more positivity to the typically dismal cultures of care often found in these places. I can say more about that if you wish.

Respectfully, I would also suggest that you might be surprised at the popularity of workshops themed around common mental health problems, such as "Working with....anxiety, depression, PTSD, Sexual Abuse" etc etc. Knowing a bit about anxiety, for example, is a long way from competence in working with.

The list of what is missing from clinical trainings goes on and on in terms of content, trust me, and that's before you get to the point of health related beliefs etc.

Have you thought about circulating some kind of 'Training Needs Analysis' in the form of a questionnaire to find out what local workers might be interested in the most ? And a similar one for purchasers ?

Also, to refer to a not much mentioned NLP book, have you seen ?

NLP and Health: Amazon.co.uk: Joseph O'Connor, Ian McDermott: Books

NLP and Health (Andy Bradbury's review; more favourable than mine)

In all honesty it is perhaps not the best written NLP book ever (IMHO...sorry guys), but has some very useful ideas in it perhaps for you in light of this thread. Not to mention,

Beliefs: Pathways to Health and Wellbeing: Amazon.co.uk: Robert B. Dilts, etc., Tim Hallbom, Suzi Smith: Books

The other theme I noticed in your post was the important issue of certification, what that means exactly and to whom. I have a number of NLP and Hypnosis Certificates, none of which have ever proved to be useful in maintaining or expanding professional registration or in negotiations about pay or in terms of recognition from educational establishments. No shocks there then. However your prospective audience may well be interested in those issues. Perhaps however you and your associates can put enough NLP into a series of themed workshops to provide a credible Practitioner Training ? I would guess that at least some of your participants would be interested in such a certificate were they to complete your future programme of themed workshops. If you ever have any joy in terms of recognition from the educational institutes, please let me know so I can cite the precedent if and when I have another go. I did a certain amount of NLP Trainer Training and jumped off the bus. I provide certificates of attendance to keep that are knocked up on a desktop and really do not mean very much. If you and your associates can provide even marginally more meaningful certification than one of attendance, that has got to be an advantage, right ? Business wise, you might generate greater receptivity by including some CBT, flavour of the moment that it seems to be.

As regards the business side to all this, I hope you have contributions from folk more able and astute than I - not my forte. In the simplest sense however, more robust and enabled workers are, I suspect less likely to go sick or otherwise be long term absent, therein lying some kind of cost/savings differential. It might be useful to your case to find out how many clinical hours have been lost through long term sickness, especially with respect to worker stress, anxiety, depression etc. over the last two or three financial years, if you could access that information, or at least point the employers who know to look at those hidden costs of employment. I think another potential group to target might be budget holding GP's working in large multi-disciplinary surgeries, of which I guess there are a fair few in your part of the world.

Finally, you mentioned applying NLP to work with addictions. As I have previously posted on NLPC elsewhere, I was a substance misuse worker for many years. We can talk more about applications in future posts or different threads if you wish. Save to say that when the heroin user talks about habits and the NLPer talks about habits, the meanings are perhaps not so polarised as you might have first thought.

Regards and sincere best wishes in what you are trying to do here,

MH

I'd go along with Malcolm's comments, and add -- from my experience working in a hostel with mentally ill homeless people -- that an understanding of systems thinking is very useful. However well-intentioned and NLP trained your staff are, they are working within a system that mitigates against success. This is of course not intended by any of the people involved in creating the framework that people operate in, but it is often the case regardless.

Recently, one of the young men I work with had a realisation that he summed up thus: "I've got no incentive to change." Which was a brave and insightful remark for him to share. The reasoning? He's living somewhere he doesn't have to lift a finger to receive a roof over his head, a cooked meal once a day, other food available for him too, and more cash coming in from benefits than he knows what to do with. Which is one of the reasons that he gambles. Another is that he is bored out of his mind, and casinos jumpstart his adrenalin. He's a bright guy -- hence the insight -- and has no pressure to do much of anything with his time. And wanting to keep things that way, he plays the system, only attending about a third of his appointments -- which in effect triples the time he could spend in the hostel. Sure, he could be going to an allotment, computer classes, volunteering in a charity shop or whatever else...but why should he? Easier to loll about, sleep most of the day -- which minimises interaction with staff, more being on shift then than at night -- and believe that he's a lot more ill than he is, and is in need of care rather than support.

Now, at least in that guy's case there is the prospect of change. Being a nasty bastard, I asked him whether looking back at forty years of meals on wheels was something to look forward to when he's thinking back over his life on his 80th birthday. Maybe that'll make him think. I hope it does. And I have had little moments where I feel I've managed to reach people and make a difference to them -- some of them seem to think so anyway. But as long as the system is more geared to creating jobs for the people in it than lives for those it allegedly supports, it's going to be an uphill struggle to achieve change.

Hi Malcomb,

Thanks for the answer it's very helpful and I will use it create an outline of a couple of courses to offer initially until I become better at understanding the needs of Health Care workers more fully whilst /if I get to working with them.

I would very much like to hear more about the Dementia work, because this was specifically one of the areas that was mentioned that is currently in demand. I could use this example as a case study and framework to explain what would happen on a training and how it would benefit patient and staff alike.

As one who has been close to someone affected by the appaling conditions in which their father with dementia was cared for before he died in September last year, I would have a good 'state' of... I want to change how this works and SOON... to drive my pitch. Although I was not personally there to see it, I did witness the effect it had on their loved ones.

So I especially would love to know what could be done in this area. I think the fact that it is being demanded by the governnment agencies is a positive step.

I will make enquires as to what could be done in terms of a 'higher form of accreditation' certificate and get back to you when I know more.

I have to now work on getting the contract and putting on my 'business head' before I get to the 'real work'.. lets see where this go.

Nina

Hi Adrian,

Thanks for your reply too and I hope to let you know the good news by the next time I see you.

For now I am going to work on getting my business pitching sorted, because without that, I won't be able to have any effect anyway.

Once inside the system, I can begin to work on what needs to be done from my position. When it comes to different types of care settings I may be able to have more impact on some and not others. Dementia patients for example are a different kettle of fish than homeless with no incentive to change.

I appreciate all the answers and hope to ask you more and collaborate on the forum in the future should I get the opportunity to take the next step.

If anyone has any knowledge about the business side, I would be grateful of any more pointers.

I have a lot of information now from which to create a pitch. So thanks Malcolm and Adrian for your amazing responses so far.

Nina

Hi Nina,

I hope your bid is going well.

virtualAngel wrote:

I would very much like to hear more about the Dementia work, because this was specifically one of the areas that was mentioned that is currently in demand. I could use this example as a case study and framework to explain what would happen on a training and how it would benefit patient and staff alike.

As one who has been close to someone affected by the appaling conditions in which their father with dementia was cared for before he died in September last year, I would have a good 'state' of... I want to change how this works and SOON... to drive my pitch. Although I was not personally there to see it, I did witness the effect it had on their loved ones.

So I especially would love to know what could be done in this area. I think the fact that it is being demanded by the governnment agencies is a positive step.

In reading the following please bear in mind that when I worked in an end stage dementia unit, I was very much the NLP enthusiastic novice. I went to work there for many reasons, one of which happened to be that the manager was an NLP Practitioner and I wanted to find out more. What we did was not so much about treating dementia directly with NLP, but looking at how cultures around dementia care might be changed with benefits all round, ecologically speaking. I am not sure that an organic dementia is anything other than an biological decline that is largely un-treatable currently by medicine or psychology. If any posters here on NLPC have a different point of view or evidence to the contrary, that would be interesting.

To cut a long story relatively short, I was shocked and horrified by the overall behaviour of the staff both towards the patients, their standards of care and to the visiting social/family carers. I have some pretty grim memories of the place of the patients half slumped in armchairs staring at some point behind the TV screen while the staff enjoyed the daily ritual of the extended breakfast telling the same old anecdotes as the whole tedious process rumbled towards the next inevitable round of necessary tasks. If anyone did get motivated to have a go at providing some kind of stimulus between toileting and meals in terms of "day care", the result was to underscore the cognitive deficits and remind everybody of lost functionality. The whole thing was like some very dark Monty Python sketch of pointless pub type quizzes or skittles down the length of the lounge. If the ball went anything like in the right direction, there would be an incongruous or sarcastically false appreciation of the achievement. IMO the staff were totally institutionalized, generally burnt out and apathetic. In the worst cases some of them were aggressive bullies and borderline depressives. I remember at times patients having their meals removed lest their protracted feeding impacted badly on a staff break, for instance.

The work was inevitably task focussed and at times difficult and challenging, with very little in terms of interpersonal appreciation or support, and the whole routine of the place really seemed to be more of benefit to the working group rather than individual patients. One of the most odd aspects was the apparent reluctance to even discuss how the environment might be changed for the better to become a slightly more rewarding or motivating place to work. I think Adrian is right when he points out,

......an understanding of systems thinking is very useful. However well-intentioned and NLP trained your staff are, they are working within a system that mitigates against success. This is of course not intended by any of the people involved in creating the framework that people operate in, but it is often the case regardless.

This is an accurate observation of both wider social constructs, and how specific groups of people can behave.

Anyway, I joined this Team, young and blissfully unaware of how working in such a place for a ten year stretch might impact on the soul, or at least the one time better nature of the would be carers. Generally I was seen as naive, I think, and not a little weird, which was fine by me. I would add provocative. Try drinking tea out of someone else's cup in such a team and clock the reaction !

Anyway, such was the context. You are asking about what might be done in terms of NLP. Well, that has largely to be with the willing. Most workers there were happy to let others get on with something while they got on with their staff rituals, but there you go. It is hardly surprising I think that generally the staff there came to work in a poor state and left in a worse one, and those poor states were reflected in poor attitudes towards patients and families. Having said that, we all know here about how NLP may be used in terms of state management. Our assumption in doing this work was that if the carers were in better shape, then the caring would also be enhanced.

Rather than dealing with reluctant staff, one of the areas we looked at was day care and how it might be different with a small amount of added NLP. Highlighting cognitive decline did not really work for anybody, it seemed. We took a quick snapshot of how the very elderly are viewed in other (tribal) cultures, for example. Having flogged one's body in the paddy fields for the sake of the greater good, for example, some cultures hold their elderly in high esteem, rather than as a broken burden of a physical husk that needs fed and toileted until it dies because the family don't want to or can't anymore. We also looked at what might be done in a group with the patients.

Bearing in mind such ideas as " The meaning of all communication is positive, to believe otherwise is to create it so" and the notion that the onus was on us as functional adults to be flexible with our behaviour rather than expect anything too much from folk with advanced organic dementias, we started to run groups. Ironically we used to use the "Day Care Suite" there which was a large space in the building that was rarely used at all. It provided a "different" environment for the patients. Other Staff were happy to help get patients in there with us to do these groups, but as I recall, no-one ever joined us in there, content instead to do nowt or make beds elsewhere. David (the NLP Practitioner) and I would then sit on the floor, conspicuously below the "elders" in chairs and come up with a problem. One time for example we went in there saying that while we were normally good friends, we had fallen out over a certain issue and could not resolve our differences. Whatever the problem that day, we were approaching the "elders" for advice.

Now this might seem a bit odd, but I assure you it was respectfully done. We assumed that there might well be a lot wrong with the internal processing of our communication, and there was certainly a lot of confusion in the "elders" communicated output. We were not seeking logical or rational relevance to the problems we put. Instead we assumed that whatever response we got had some meaning to the patient and it was our limitation in the concrete world if we did not literally understand. Nonetheless we would thank each person for ANY offered communication and write it down on the large white boards, commenting about interest and usefulness rather than relevance. It was all a bit lateral on a content level, but in terms of basic group work we were paying attention to very simple process taking conscious care with our own non verbal behaviour, eye contact and basic courtesy. Our outcome was not to "solve" the problem in any kind of rational way, but to induce strong physiological reactions, laughter, passions, interaction with others etc, (as opposed to slumped in an armchair gazing at TV as per other days). Those more animated, stronger physiologies we anchored with the use of empathic touch. How well that worked compared with working with functional adults is hard to evaluate. All I can say is that it appeared to have a useful effect in terms of state elicitation sometimes. If nothing else there is a dividend for workers in providing sensitive and intentionally caring touch, bearing in mind that most physical contact between patients and staff was when two staff members stoop over their chair and take them to the toilet, or when getting dressed etc as the tasks are ticked off the list. Similarly these patients often appear to be in a trance anyway, and talking to them using the Milton Model to participate, get animated or get in touch with something is easy, and also has the illusion or hallucination for workers that they are involved in communication with purpose rather than futility. If nothing else, by attending to basic group work skills, at least myself and David were able to act around these patients with a better level of personal congruence around caring in the widest sense. I suppose you could describe these activities around the dementia patient as one big reframe of what it might mean to care for these people with reference to process rather than content, value rather than toil etc.

In effect we were brainstorming the group with respect to the presented difficulty. We would then provide a break (tea and biscuits) while we worked on putting some kind of story together that included all and any of the comments made by the "elders" a bit earlier, before telling that story to the participants.

Apart from the stronger physiologies that we were able to elicit, it is impossible really to evaluate what we might have achieved in terms of communication, cognitive function etc. One assumption there though was that better physiology, i.e. more air in the lungs, more oxygen to the brain has got to be good. However, it was certainly more interesting and fun that banal quizzes - and provided a big behavioural and creative stretch for us as workers. As well as that in as many ways as possible we were seeking to behave towards the dementia patients "as if" they were wise and valuable members of the community. After each story we would thank them for their contributions and help with respect to our problem de jour. There was also more of a "feel good" factor in providing an alternative and better process for the patients in our care, as opposed to what went on a lot of the time there.

A transcript of the content of one of these groups would of course have read like nonsense but that was not the point. What we were trying to do is use all our rapport skills to join our participants in their (rather strange) residual model of the world rather than suffer the disappointments, frustrations and difficulties in seeking to get them to participate in our content, concrete and literal realities.

Another step we took to improve the environment was the use of essential oils. Taste and smell are differently hardwired in terms of neurology and are generally seen to be more intact that cognitive functioning. Often there seemed little point in reality orientation or having a clock in the lounge, so we introduced the olfactory clock, that is a different oil at breakfast, lunch, dinner and supper time. Again, impossible really to evidence any gains in terms of reality orientation, but something different to do with a bit more purpose behind it than an argument (or difference of opinion) between the staff and patients about the literal time of day. "Look at the clock" some staff would say, like that would make any sense at all. Besides, the oils tend to mask well the underlying ever present unpleasant smells of the institution, and that includes its sanitary or disinfecting products.

Needless to say these activities were regarded with a fair degree of suspicion. Luckily, as I said, David was the manager, and I was willing to debate the issues with the inevitable dissenters. He in turn was happy to let me, of course. In turn, I was perceived to be hiding behind the manager, and I was the subject of a certain amount of scapegoating, sending to Coventry etc. I lasted six months there before coming to the conclusion that this aspect of necessary care work was not for me. I kind of respect some of those who do it for years, but ultimately could not accept how the majority appeared to let the work affect their state and overall well being, and how that ends up with patients being treated with disdain or even aggressively.

So when I said to you Nina, sincere best wishes in seeking to get this project of yours off the ground, I meant it. Somewhere around here I have some handwritten notes from the time that I can (maybe) dig out if these matters continue to engage your interest. Or maybe by now you think I am the lunatic.

Regards,

MH

P.S. Here's an afterthought; I had hoped that in the interim between this and my previous posting that you would have received more and varied contributions. Sadly that does not appear to be the case - a sad reflection perhaps of the dirth of NLP in care applications perhaps. Once more, good luck and success to you in what you are trying to do.

P.P.S. Second afterthought - this link in the media today may also be of interest.

BBC News - Indian village may hold key to beating dementia

Hi Malcomb,

I sent in the proposal last week and have not heard back from them yet. I will give them a call and or other agencies like them as there could be on-going work there. I also suggest that anyone here that does not know of the demand for trainings in this sector and who have the skills to make proposals to the care agencies - maybe a niche that you could create a career from.

Thanks for your wonderful post yet again Malcomb.... I used to run the outpatients department for a day care centre for the elderly for a little while as a temp and saw some of the activities that were given to the patients. I also sometimes used to be invited to share dinner and sit and eat at the table with them. I must admit this regressed me back to when I was younger and felt immense respect for them and minded my p's and q's Even so.... I found it a lovely thing to do and looked forward to my lunches with them, but that was about the extent to which I was allowed to interact with them - apart from having to call them and remind them that the coach/bus would be picking them up and to go and open the door.. or get ready... having to repeat it sometimes in gentle patient tones.

The waiting room - where new day care patients had appointments with the psychologist - was not a very cozy place to wait.. so I would bring in fresh flowers and play mozart to them - it was fun watching their faces and have them asking.. 'who put the flowers' there... etc' So I did what I could with the knowledge I had about music and how it helps the neurons in patients with dimentia.

I find it sad, when such quality people like yourself get treated in the way you describe - lets hope that NLP and those who are working in the combined Healing fields become more widely required in these areas. It's early days still, I feel, in systems where they are just happy to go through the motions as you and Adrian describe... it feels like it would be an insurmountable mountain to climb to get changes implemented quickly.

I will let you know if I make any progress on the proposal and I am sure your post will give other's a massive insight as to how they can use NLP in this way too.

If progress happens, I will revisit these postings to refine and hone and discuss further.

The link you posted also suggests the simple things we can do to prevent it from getting to the point where drugs need to be taken. Basic lifestyle changes like drinking water, moderate physical activity and healthy eating, positive attitude, and... more recently in my estimation..... integrating stuck emotions and transmuting them, however this is another field of study that has some resistance from the 'system'.. and also not really easy to get patients to do voluntarily yet. Gentle movement classes are now also being demanded for dementia patients by the agencies.. and this I think is VERY good ) So I still feel there are some glimmers of light appearing.

Thanks again
Nina

P.s Far from being a lunatic, I think you were a precious resource they failed to spot in time - who knows where the system would have been by now had you gone to ranks of policy making. This what I meant by 'who really cares'.... and there needs to be more of your kind at the top echelons.

virtualAngel wrote:

If any Mental Health Care workers have had training in NLP here can you tell me what applications you have found most useful in your work?

You've already found Malcomb, who's a great resource, and Adrian had a great point about Systems Thinking. You may want to look up Adam Sargent, too.

I have to echo Malcomb here: there's nothing I'd leave out. I think it has more to do with the intra-personal skills, though... the kind of person you become after you go through a good Prac training and then practice for a while in the real world.

If I had to pick one thing, I'd say it would be the understanding that my model of the world is not the only one, and that it is neither accurate nor complete. It's the difference that allows me to congruently say "I'm sorry, man, I don't see any snakes on the floor" instead of "It's just a hallucination! There are no snakes on the floor!"

malcombhead wrote:

In reading the following please bear in mind that when I worked in an end stage dementia unit, I was very much the NLP enthusiastic novice.

I have a theory. What is it that it is - this theory of mine. Well, this is what it is - my theory that I have, that is to say, which is mine, is mine. My theory that belongs to me is as follows. Ahemhemhemhem. This is how it goes. The next thing I"m going to say is my theory. Ready?

(Sorry, but you brought up Monty Python.)

It's been my practice in the context of dementia victims to assume that, as someone once said, everybody is about 25 years old in their own mind. I figure out what the world was like when they were in their early twenties and I try to meet them there... use the slang that was common then, whistle a song from the charts from that era, be polite by their parents' standards (manners, etc.). It gets their attention, and that's bitter hard to do.

My favorite example of this was a woman who was fighting (hitting, yelling, and so on) the nurses in their attempts to drag her physically back to her room. As I was walking up to her, I guessed that she was in her late teens or early twenties sometime in the late 1950s or early 1960s. I put on my best posture, walked directly up to her, bowed, stepped around to her right side, and offered her my arm. She looked at me, took my arm, and walked with me to her room, a perfect lady the whole time, leaving the tired and unbelieving nurses behind.

Love that Michael

Just updating my news... things have turned out that I am now able to set in motion some very exciting new projects for mental health care workers specialising in Dementia Care.

Might need to contact you both later for your input and perhaps even a role for you.

Love Nina x

Hi Nina,

virtualAngel wrote:

Just updating my news... things have turned out that I am now able to set in motion some very exciting new projects for mental health care workers specialising in Dementia Care.

Wow...great news for workers and patients alike, and good for you for getting your foot in the door.

Please feel welcome to contact me if you think I can help the process in any way.

Regards

MH

virtualAngel wrote:

Just updating my news... things have turned out that I am now able to set in motion some very exciting new projects for mental health care workers specialising in Dementia Care.

Excellent!

Might need to contact you both later for your input and perhaps even a role for you.

I'll help in any way I can. I'd just as soon not move to the UK, though.

I don't have dementia experience, other than the occasional senior moment, but again feel free to contact me if my wider experience of mental health work might be of use.

adrian r wrote:

I don't have dementia experience, other than the occasional senior moment,

How unkind of you to deprive one of us of the opportunity to chime in with that parenthetical phrase ourselves.