Are any of you curious about subliminal messages? Have you ever wondered if they could actually work in terms of personal change, inducing some new and wanted behaviors?

After doing some research about subliminal messages, I decided to test them, and developed a small software that does this thing.
I've been exposed to this software for 3 days so far,( it is running constantly on my computer while I'm working) and probably I've experience already some changes. It is really hard to tell since it is my own project and what I experienced might be biased by my momentary enthusiasm.

Anyway if any of you would like to try it and share with me your results, feel free to contact me.

Cheers,
Jan

Jan

you have to know that you are NOT the first person out there to have experimented with subliminals(in fact had you searched the archives, you would know there have been other postings on this very subject)

you probably know there is an entire industry that produces tapes/CD's with subliminal messages on them. their marketing can be very good, their packaging can be excellent and their product is crap. Brainsync, Holosync have been around for years.

now the more competent change agents(this is a NLP website, so I'll invoke the more seasoned NLP practitioners and Ericksonian Hypnotist in the audience)will tell you when someone wants personal changework, the best way to obtain that is via one on one session with such professionals. and during that session the client will be guided through certain processes that are designed to get them to a certain outcome. this may or may not include anchoring, belief change exercises, or other ones. these processes are custom tailored to the individual, use info obtained by the individual to craft a very specific solution.

a tape/CD is simple unable to do any of the above and any result it does get is purely accidental.

you of course are free to explore subliminals until your "heart is content" yet I wonder why would anyone serious about personal development choose "subliminals" particularly when there are some extremely good change agents in private practice out there

Jim,

First I'm not using sounds... It is difficult to work in an office with more people if there is constant background noise, and as far as I've read, subliminal sounds have no effect.

Visuals according to some studies might work. I want to know this for certainty so I want to test it. There are few products that include visuals but for them you have to watch everyday for a couple of weeks the same 15 minutes long very boring video of some NLP expert telling you a story, while subliminals are flashed on the screen. I was only able to pay attention to those videos only the first two times I saw them, later they became really boring and I always ended up playing with my cellphone instead of looking at the computer screen.

You really want me to tell you why someone should give a try to this? here it goes...

If you are a person who is already working with a computer, this program will run in the background and will not disturb with your work and time.

It is completely free, I would love to hear your results after using it, but that is only if you find the time and want to share it.

If you are curious about subliminals and want to really test them to be empirically sure about their effects.

If you ever get tongue twisted or hesitate to start conversations with strangers, then if subliminals work this might work for you. (if you want to use it for something else I can tell you how to change some parameters, and use it for that)

If are tired of illegally downloading products that claim to be miraculous and do not deliver what they promise. I do not promise any results with it.

If you earn some money from time to time and are tired of buying miraculous products that do not deliver what they promise. This is free.

If you earn regularly money and are tired of going to seminars where the Instructor in the seminar explicitly tells everyone of you: "Please do not sarge in the Hotel" and later tries to sell you that you should approach woman anywhere. You can try this subliminal stuff it might work.

If you earn a little bit more money and decided to go 1 on 1 with a psychologist to find out after a few sessions that he/she has no plan on how to work with you. Again this is free and you do not loose time.

If you earn more money and go to an NLP Master practitioner, who ends up being someone who is so insecure that can't look at you in the eyes and speak without stuttering, and you can see how he clenches his fist to anchor some confidence and be able to share with you an idea... This is free and you do not need to see face to face someone doing that

If you earn more money, go to a hypnotherapist, get some ok results but you are not at the point you want to be. If you ever did that great, this software might or might not give you a nice boost.

You were curious about seeking help from some other experts, and so you enter into a forum, where you realize that most of this experts, believe that being good at NLP gave them some psychic and telepathic powers that allows them to read your mind and personal history perfectly through forum post, and instead answering your simple question, they just assume zillions of things about you and your problem and then give a reply that has absolutely nothing to do with whatever you posted.
As someone who takes personal development serious you've probably tried already several stuff according to what your budget and time allows you. Maybe you already got lucky and really downloaded a miracle product, attended to a miracle seminar or got lucky to find the 1 on 1 help that works for you, and you do not need any personal development anymore. If that's the case you can try my software program out of curiosity to experiment with subliminals. If you are not in that level yet and you still want to develop something in you, I'm sure you've already tried many things a new one wont hurt, and might actually help.


Cheers,
Jan

Jan_Schneider wrote:

Jim,

First I'm not using sounds... It is difficult to work in an office with more people if there is constant background noise, and as far as I've read, subliminal sounds have no effect.

Visuals according to some studies might work. I want to know this for certainty so I want to test it. There are few products that include visuals but for them you have to watch everyday for a couple of weeks the same 15 minutes long very boring video of some NLP expert telling you a story, while subliminals are flashed on the screen. I was only able to pay attention to those videos only the first two times I saw them, later they became really boring and I always ended up playing with my cellphone instead of looking at the computer screen.

You really want me to tell you why someone should give a try to this? here it goes...

If you are a person who is already working with a computer, this program will run in the background and will not disturb with your work and time.

It is completely free, I would love to hear your results after using it, but that is only if you find the time and want to share it.

If you are curious about subliminals and want to really test them to be empirically sure about their effects.

If you ever get tongue twisted or hesitate to start conversations with strangers, then if subliminals work this might work for you. (if you want to use it for something else I can tell you how to change some parameters, and use it for that)

If are tired of illegally downloading products that claim to be miraculous and do not deliver what they promise. I do not promise any results with it.

If you earn some money from time to time and are tired of buying miraculous products that do not deliver what they promise. This is free.

If you earn regularly money and are tired of going to seminars where the Instructor in the seminar explicitly tells everyone of you: "Please do not sarge in the Hotel" and later tries to sell you that you should approach woman anywhere. You can try this subliminal stuff it might work.

If you earn a little bit more money and decided to go 1 on 1 with a psychologist to find out after a few sessions that he/she has no plan on how to work with you. Again this is free and you do not loose time.

If you earn more money and go to an NLP Master practitioner, who ends up being someone who is so insecure that can't look at you in the eyes and speak without stuttering, and you can see how he clenches his fist to anchor some confidence and be able to share with you an idea... This is free and you do not need to see face to face someone doing that

If you earn more money, go to a hypnotherapist, get some ok results but you are not at the point you want to be. If you ever did that great, this software might or might not give you a nice boost.

You were curious about seeking help from some other experts, and so you enter into a forum, where you realize that most of this experts, believe that being good at NLP gave them some psychic and telepathic powers that allows them to read your mind and personal history perfectly through forum post, and instead answering your simple question, they just assume zillions of things about you and your problem and then give a reply that has absolutely nothing to do with whatever you posted.
As someone who takes personal development serious you've probably tried already several stuff according to what your budget and time allows you. Maybe you already got lucky and really downloaded a miracle product, attended to a miracle seminar or got lucky to find the 1 on 1 help that works for you, and you do not need any personal development anymore. If that's the case you can try my software program out of curiosity to experiment with subliminals. If you are not in that level yet and you still want to develop something in you, I'm sure you've already tried many things a new one wont hurt, and might actually help.


Cheers,
Jan

Jan

I really wonder if you read my posting or maybe you did but just decided to ignore what was said

what your comments presuppose is that "one solution fits all" in this case the subliminal you are promoting. but that people should sample it anyway becuase its "free"

just what would people think about the expertise of a doctor if no matter what medical condition they had, the doctor provided the very same solution/or prescripion every time. naturally they'd conclude he was a quack

alot of people before you have tested/ sampled subliminal. I did myself over 20 years ago, before I discovered more effective and superior change methodologies and professionals

you just keep on "playing" with those subliminals.just knock yourself out. people like myself learned along time ago how useless they are





.

Jim,

Can I ask you what type of subliminal messages did you test on yourself 20 years ago?

If you haven't been actualized in the last 20 years, here you can read some scientific publications about subliminal messages:

Brian S. Lowery , Naomi I. Eisenberger , Curtis D. Hardin , Stacey Sinclai, Long-term Effects of Subliminal Priming on Academic Performance, September 2006


Raphaël Gaillard, Laurent Cohen, Claude Adam, Stéphane Clemenceau, Dominique Hasboun, Michel Baulac, Jean-Claude Willer, Stanislas Dehaene, and Lionel Naccache. Subliminal words durably affect neuronal activity. Neuroreport, 18(15):1527--1531, October 2007


Stanislas Dehaene. The neural bases of subliminal priming. In Functional Neuroimaging of visual cognition (Attention and performance Series, 20). Nancy Kanwisher & John Duncan, 2003.
Kimihiro Nakamura, Stanislas Dehaene, Antoinette Jobert, Denis Le Bihan, and Sid Kouider. Subliminal convergence of kanji and kana words: further evidence for functionalparcellation of the posterior temporal cortex in visual word perception.. J Cogn Neurosci, 17(6):954-68, June 2005

I'm sure you can find many more research studies about it. Also you can ask some NLPers like Mark Ryan and Kevin Hogan their opinion about subliminal messages.

How do you know that the software I developed works the same way as what you tested 20 years ago?
You have not actualized yourself in 20 years, you've no idea about what my software does, but you are claiming that it will not work. (THIS IS WHAT I COMPLAIN ABOUT THIS FORUM, PEOPLE CRITICIZE, CLAIM, RECOMMEND, ETC ASSUMING THAT THEY ALREADY KNOW ALL THE PERSONAL HISTORY AND DETAILS ABOUT THE OTHER PERSON, NOBODY EVER ASKS FOR MORE INFORMATION IN ORDER TO UNDERSTAND THE OTHER PERSON BETTER.)

After getting informed about all these studies I became curious about it, and my skepticism asked me to test it. I've been testing it on myself and there have been some changes. I'm still skeptical about those changes, maybe I'm being delusional and I'm just perceiving those changes because I want my program to work. I'm still skeptical about it that is the reason I would like to have more people testing it. I'm not giving any information about the changes I've perceived because people might be biased by their expectations.

I'm not saying I've "the solution that fits all in". Even when it works I do not expect, want or recommend anybody to stop going to a specialist, attending seminars, buying books or whatever they do. This is not planned to be a substitute for anything... where do you get this ideas?
I'm saying that in case it works many people can get some benefit about it, like many people gets some benefit by wearing shoes, nice perfumes, going to school even when these things are never the solution that fits all in... In case it doesn't work the only thing that you'll loose is the 2.34 mb of disk space that it uses, and the time it takes you to perform a double click whenever you start your computer.

Jan_Schneider wrote:

Jim,

Can I ask you what type of subliminal messages did you test on yourself 20 years ago?

If you haven't been actualized in the last 20 years, here you can read some scientific publications about subliminal messages:

Brian S. Lowery , Naomi I. Eisenberger , Curtis D. Hardin , Stacey Sinclai, Long-term Effects of Subliminal Priming on Academic Performance, September 2006


Raphaël Gaillard, Laurent Cohen, Claude Adam, Stéphane Clemenceau, Dominique Hasboun, Michel Baulac, Jean-Claude Willer, Stanislas Dehaene, and Lionel Naccache. Subliminal words durably affect neuronal activity. Neuroreport, 18(15):1527--1531, October 2007


Stanislas Dehaene. The neural bases of subliminal priming. In Functional Neuroimaging of visual cognition (Attention and performance Series, 20). Nancy Kanwisher & John Duncan, 2003.
Kimihiro Nakamura, Stanislas Dehaene, Antoinette Jobert, Denis Le Bihan, and Sid Kouider. Subliminal convergence of kanji and kana words: further evidence for functionalparcellation of the posterior temporal cortex in visual word perception.. J Cogn Neurosci, 17(6):954-68, June 2005

I'm sure you can find many more research studies about it. Also you can ask some NLPers like Mark Ryan and Kevin Hogan their opinion about subliminal messages.

How do you know that the software I developed works the same way as what you tested 20 years ago?
You have not actualized yourself in 20 years, you've no idea about what my software does, but you are claiming that it will not work. (THIS IS WHAT I COMPLAIN ABOUT THIS FORUM, PEOPLE CRITICIZE, CLAIM, RECOMMEND, ETC ASSUMING THAT THEY ALREADY KNOW ALL THE PERSONAL HISTORY AND DETAILS ABOUT THE OTHER PERSON, NOBODY EVER ASKS FOR MORE INFORMATION IN ORDER TO UNDERSTAND THE OTHER PERSON BETTER.)

After getting informed about all these studies I became curious about it, and my skepticism asked me to test it. I've been testing it on myself and there have been some changes. I'm still skeptical about those changes, maybe I'm being delusional and I'm just perceiving those changes because I want my program to work. I'm still skeptical about it that is the reason I would like to have more people testing it. I'm not giving any information about the changes I've perceived because people might be biased by their expectations.

I'm not saying I've "the solution that fits all in". Even when it works I do not expect, want or recommend anybody to stop going to a specialist, attending seminars, buying books or whatever they do. This is not planned to be a substitute for anything... where do you get this ideas?
I'm saying that in case it works many people can get some benefit about it, like many people gets some benefit by wearing shoes, nice perfumes, going to school even when these things are never the solution that fits all in... In case it doesn't work the only thing that you'll loose is the 2.34 mb of disk space that it uses, and the time it takes you to perform a double click whenever you start your computer.

Jan

you just don't get it. and then you complain that people " CRITICIZE, CLAIM, RECOMMEND, ETC ASSUMING THAT THEY ALREADY KNOW ALL THE PERSONAL HISTORY AND DETAILS ABOUT THE OTHER PERSON"t"

yet you aren't offering yourself as the change agent. you are promoting a product -subliminals! and anyone with a "brain" knows there's a difference.

and in the process of this posting(and because of other postings I've read of yours on this website)I realize respectfully how little you really know about how high quality personal changwork happens

where do I get these ideas???
there is a pretext here on this website that people want either personal changework or influence. they don't come ot this website to just "walk around" the block" in some new shoes or just "smell better" with some new perfume. they can get that at the shopping mall. they seek out this website specifically for a REASON. they want personal change of a scale and type that leads to new patterning.

regardles of whether your subliminal was made in 2012 or 1990
you have a medium/device that emits one long loop(visual or auditory), the same subliminal message repeated over and over, it simply will not elicit high quality change from someone requiring such. it can not because 1)it cannot enter into a recursive feedback loop with a person;2)it can't elicit info from a person; it can't get get rapport with the person; it can't set an anchor(s) if necesary. it cant model the other person's strategies and determine where to make the change.

when you have experienced very high quality pesonal changework for yourself from a reputable, skilled change agent,then you will know that what I say is true

Jim,

you are the one that does not get it, and you do not do any effort to get it. I wonder how can you be in rapport with anybody when at least in this forum you never try to understand others intentions, the place where they come from, and what they want to communicate. You just assuming, imagining and hallucinating a bunch of stuff.

I agree that 1 on 1 intervention with an expert in whatever field is the best way to become better at something. (becoming better = change work, for me) Yet it is impractical to have this person be with you 24/7. Even when this person can be there with you all the time, there are still most of the times things that can help you to become better.

Anyway this is a free forum where people can promote their ideas, discuss them, get some feedback, learn something new, try to show off your expertise, show what a closed minded you can be, etc. Since this is a forum about persuasion, change work, etc. I ingenuously thought that I could bring this topic up and have a constructive discussion about it. The thing is that the only way to have a constructive discussion about it is once you know what my software does. You've no idea about what my software does and your knowledge about subliminal messages is completely outdated, so you are not in a position to constructively discuss it.

It is funny how you tend to bring up "high quality change", "more competent change agents". 1 on 1 intervention with an expert is so far the best, I agree with you.
Answer something, if there is something like "eliciting high quality change" doesn't it also mean that there is also "eliciting low quality change"? Is it possible that there could be many ways to elicit change? Have you ever thought that your "high quality change" might be impractical to follow for many people? Has this "high quality change" become better with the time or has it always been the same? Have you ever thought that this "high quality change" can be improved? or is it perfect the way it is right now?

In my opinion it is a very closed minded attitude to think that is worthless to discuss, try out new things, get actualized since one and only one thing works, can't be improved and has already been discovered.
I wonder why I write this, because with such a closed minded attitude a person will never get it.

Jan_Schneider wrote:

Jim,

you are the one that does not get it, and you do not do any effort to get it. I wonder how can you be in rapport with anybody when at least in this forum you never try to understand others intentions, the place where they come from, and what they want to communicate. You just assuming, imagining and hallucinating a bunch of stuff.

I agree that 1 on 1 intervention with an expert in whatever field is the best way to become better at something. (becoming better = change work, for me) Yet it is impractical to have this person be with you 24/7. Even when this person can be there with you all the time, there are still most of the times things that can help you to become better.

Anyway this is a free forum where people can promote their ideas, discuss them, get some feedback, learn something new, try to show off your expertise, show what a closed minded you can be, etc. Since this is a forum about persuasion, change work, etc. I ingenuously thought that I could bring this topic up and have a constructive discussion about it. The thing is that the only way to have a constructive discussion about it is once you know what my software does. You've no idea about what my software does and your knowledge about subliminal messages is completely outdated, so you are not in a position to constructively discuss it.

It is funny how you tend to bring up "high quality change", "more competent change agents". 1 on 1 intervention with an expert is so far the best, I agree with you.
Answer something, if there is something like "eliciting high quality change" doesn't it also mean that there is also "eliciting low quality change"? Is it possible that there could be many ways to elicit change? Have you ever thought that your "high quality change" might be impractical to follow for many people? Has this "high quality change" become better with the time or has it always been the same? Have you ever thought that this "high quality change" can be improved? or is it perfect the way it is right now?

In my opinion it is a very closed minded attitude to think that is worthless to discuss, try out new things, get actualized since one and only one thing works, can't be improved and has already been discovered.
I wonder why I write this, because with such a closed minded attitude a person will never get it.

Jan

you state that as of your intial posting you. YOURSELF have only been exposed to the software for 3 days(8 days by now) and that you are probably biased by your momentary initial enthusiasnm.
since this is your project- you are still designing the software, it clearly NOT even a finished product.

you are promoting a product(nevermind that's it free) still under construction, you solicit feedback, get "pushback" about it from me, and decide that because I didn't take the initiative to find out more, that I'm "narrowminded" amongst other "mindreads".

wow that's some salesmanship. I don't know what's worse: you trying to hold the "prospect" (in this case me)responsible for the rapport being missing or and implying that I'm ignorant about subliminals or other things here

basically, you've had a crediblity problem from the beginning which my posting appropriatedly raised, and you evidently just think that your "software under construction" should just "sell itself"

I'd recommend sales training but as you probably dont have the budget for it, I'll just pass on suggesting any trainers









I

I want to discuss the effectiveness of certain subliminal methods, since not everybody is able, has the time or want to make a program to show these messages in this specific way, I am giving mine for free, to try, keep it or whatever they want to do with it, I do not care.

I find these late subliminal findings interesting and because I was skeptic about them I want to test them myself and have a discussion with some intelligent people about it.

I still do not know where do you get the idea that I want to promote not just a product, but the product that will change self help forever. I'm not. I want to discuss about the effectiveness of a method, which you already said you have no idea about it since it is rather new and your latest knowledge is 20 years old. ... If you got the impression that I want to promote a product, I accept part of my fault for not communicating properly.

I'm not exaggerating here but not even when I'm talking with cleverbot (Cleverbot.com - a clever bot - speak to an AI with some Actual Intelligence?) I feel more misunderstood than with all your replies... According to what I can perceive from your replies you've been misunderstanding 80% of what I'm trying to communicate, and instead of answering any of my questions, you rather change the topic and say that it is useless to get my software because it is under construction(I mean what has this to do with anything? if my intention is just to discuss about the possible benefits of certain subliminal messages, why do I need to have a good credibility in order to discuss about this types of messages?)

I'm not kidding here and not being ironic, in my opinion cleverbot does a much better job than you, I feel much more in rapport with it than with you and its feedback is always more accurate than yours.

I'd recommend sales training but as you probably dont have the budget for it, I'll just pass on suggesting any trainers

What do you call someone who is constantly making and spreading wrong assumptions about others?

Jan_Schneider wrote:

I want to discuss the effectiveness of certain subliminal methods, since not everybody is able, has the time or want to make a program to show these messages in this specific way, I am giving mine for free, to try, keep it or whatever they want to do with it, I do not care.

I find these late subliminal findings interesting and because I was skeptic about them I want to test them myself and have a discussion with some intelligent people about it.

I still do not know where do you get the idea that I want to promote not just a product, but the product that will change self help forever. I'm not. I want to discuss about the effectiveness of a method, which you already said you have no idea about it since it is rather new and your latest knowledge is 20 years old. ... If you got the impression that I want to promote a product, I accept part of my fault for not communicating properly.

I'm not exaggerating here but not even when I'm talking with cleverbot (Cleverbot.com - a clever bot - speak to an AI with some Actual Intelligence?) I feel more misunderstood than with all your replies... According to what I can perceive from your replies you've been misunderstanding 80% of what I'm trying to communicate, and instead of answering any of my questions, you rather change the topic and say that it is useless to get my software because it is under construction(I mean what has this to do with anything? if my intention is just to discuss about the possible benefits of certain subliminal messages, why do I need to have a good credibility in order to discuss about this types of messages?)

I'm not kidding here and not being ironic, in my opinion cleverbot does a much better job than you, I feel much more in rapport with it than with you and its feedback is always more accurate than yours.

What do you call someone who is constantly making and spreading wrong assumptions about others?

Jan

I find it funny that you are measuring rapport based mostly on agreement/disagrement of content. but I'll leave how you measure that for later

if you consider the methods of personal changework available that require a trained professional to interact directly with the client(ranging from EFT, to hypnosis, to NLP, to even Dianetic Auditing)there is a minimal level of quality established. the level of quality will of course fluctuate widely among those different methods, partly according to the skill level of the practitioner

yet if you take a trained professional out of the equation and when you "restrict" the self help method to subliminals whatever the delivery(Software or CD's,) you automatically and severely compromise the quality of changwork.

now it could be that your criteria ranks quality rather low or neutral, I don't know.

if all you want to really do is discuss the benefits of certain subliminal messages, that's going to be a pretty short discussion.

people have gotten more discriminating about the methods to obtain personal changework over the last 20 years,and subliminals just don't provide any real "edge" compared other methods