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What would you do with being able to tranceform bodies and minds?

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We are soon going to record another podcast to be published on the website :: Patterns Of Physical Transformation ::. We would love to hear from anyone interested in PPT, in particular if you have any questions you'd like presented to Dr Ron and Dr Edie Perry. If your question gets used, you will get a plug! Free marketing must be good!

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Hi Jonathon,

in my experience working with many western people who learn tai chi or similar things, the big problem seems to be the shoulders and the lack of awareness when it comes to remaining poised calm and relaxed.

I think this would be a great area as the problem seems so common.

Cheers mate

What was the question Peter?

Hi peter your right about shoulders etc. Learning Taiji for example use specialised postures . From what I know of the body teaching coordination isnt just in the mind. I know of no western teachers who know how to educate the body. Practice isnt enough. The question is how do people practice specifically ?,how do they know when they are moving 'right'? and above all How do you teach the body to learn new things well?

Connor wrote:

What was the question Peter?

Jonathon Jenkyn wrote:

anyone interested in PPT, in particular if you have any questions

Don wrote:

I know of no western teachers who know how to educate the body.


Well I've been very active in this field and although I do know how to do it, the way to do it is such a distance away from western culture in many respects, it became stupid to even try to help any people.

For example I can learn a full taichi routine in maybe one or two classes, this may take many years for most westerners if they are prepared to keep going. actually they don't learn anything they don't push themselves to improve, in respect to Chinese Martial Arts(CMA) anyway.

There is a lot of pain involved in the training, which is part of the training and through hypnosis I've managed to calm that down, though I still feel like I'm walking more carefully than when I'm not in training.

CMA actually led me in many ways to learn about NLP/hypnosis as with many things they relate well. The curriculum of CMA is academic which is quite unique to China even though they have promoted it around the world it doesn't enjoy the nurturing it deserves and gets in its homeland.

I read the PPT newsletter about how a predatory animal moves so sleek, rippling with muscles, finely tuned etc. when I meet wushu coaches their strength is contagious!

Now I've come back from a visit to the central library with my Chinese friend Peng Cheng who is very academic, sporty and healthy, a grand mixture for a young lady!

We bumped into a work colleague of mine who is an achoholic and doesn't eat well, but needs to work to pay for his housing. He was on the way back from the hospital after collapsing whilst working.

I've got a fit and young healthy lady from a developing country with me on one side and an old bum who is f**ked for want of a better phrase on the other. So, I do a bit of math and see an equation appear and just talking to this guy contaminated our whole atmosphere and I felt horrible.

To teach a man like that to get well would take ?? years and yet as far as I'm aware these are the attitudes of most working class people here in Britain, I want to see a change and learn something of the discipline and joy of life from our communist friends.

For me the practice of correct practice, which is essential, was taught to me by my former Karate instructor when I was 12 y.o. 28 years ago. He's of Chinese origin and they are very interesting(Chinese) how they view things, it fascinates me and I get to do NLP/Hypnosis on them too, covertly obviously and they're very impressed with the language patterns and feel that they don't get taught this method of speaking english, LOL.

I find Chinese very easy to mix with and to set them in a positive frame very easily, whereas with some english it's like wrestling with a reindeer, literally. Chinese appreciate very small things in a large way, small acts of kindness go a long way.

A long way sounds like a Chinese name, lol.

They are very relaxed and again that's contagious, that is taking a while to shake off those old patterns and make myself feel great. Obviously the language they use is beyond me so I have to imagine how to get the patterns of relaxation into my body in a language my body understands, that is a tough one.

Generally, to get a better understanding of Chinese people I have mixed with Russians, that is very interesting, because they have many of the learnings of the Chinese through the links of the sport of wushu!

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bOd1pUX32tU"]YouTube - Russian Wushu Team[/ame]

This is the national team of Russia training!

BUT this is the Chinese style!

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xu38sRcWAvA"]YouTube - 2002 China National Wushu Competition Other Emptyhand Trailr[/ame]

It's so much more silky and fluid, they understand profoundly the relationship between viscosity and hardness AND the biggy is it's very much in the language.

If you watch the circus tricks or the juggling skills it's very apparent too! Another thing that has been fascinating and relative here is that the Chinese divers always score much higher than others because of the zero splash on entry to the water this has always baffled outside of China divers, a complete mystery to coaches around the world.

Also, I think this is very much overlooked factor in the building of robots, the relationship of gravity, balance and the movement of fluids as a ballast.

I learn well by organising and scrutinisng my movement using mirrors or video, I'll show you an old video after I trained intensly in Beijing learning straight sword. I am very tired as this is the last day and I only used the video for reference and it is not of performance standard.

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mt0kdW3QSQA"]YouTube - Wushu @ Shi Cha Hai in 2005[/ame]

I'm the one in the black t-shirt doing straight sword at the end of the vid!

Here's a vid of drunken boxing which may look like acrobatics and is actually CMA or wushu, acrobats don't have this level of skill as I saw when I train in China and the wushu guys take the mick out of the acrobats/gymnasts or anyone really they are highly skilled at their art and it learns a lot of other skills to ingrain it into how they use their body, like walking museums from warfare of a bygone age!

The chinese culturally have a different awareness of their bodies. For example with TCM chinese see their practitioner to stay healthy not to see them once things go wrong.

this means the awareness of their body is orientated in such a way as they know from the feel in their body whether they are practicing correctly. Westerners in comparison have virtually the opposite attitude all in their minds. So if a chinese pushes themselves its within their understanding to be aware of more of what is involved in movement.

Also the chinese culturally are a bit obssesive. If they practice something they really go for it. Equally when they watch and learn MA they are seeing more which they can represent in the form of feeling more how to do what they see.

Westerners havent the half of the ability to concentrate as chinese or the time. As you said they have more respect more feeling for what they do. chinese deify laughter. they can concentrate with out tensing up.

Westerners culture related to the body is virtually hundreds of years behind. Our culture hasn't the history of cultivating the body. Its not in our languge. The chinese in thought speech and movement are representing ie submodalities completley differently.

In the west we need to cultivate the mind set and coordination. As you must know most people are not aware of their body. The chinese were saying eyes then waist for movement thousands of years before Feldenkrais noticed. How did they notice it? There language is pictocraphic. Full of natural ambiguity thats part of their literature. This shows how they think.

RB gives the exact strategy for improving learning physical ability. This is predicated on how aware of other bodies and how aware of our own bodies we are as well as having good examples. Some one can only repeat what they see to the degree that they are aware of their own body.

Who is able to concieve of their body as a single unit. moving all parts together.
I love martial arts and it hasnt stopped evolving. Here's to learning more, doing more more freedom and ART, more Will

Thanks Peter ,every one .

Don wrote:

Westerners culture related to the body is virtually hundreds of years behind

I couldn't agree more, you've definitely hit on some critical points in what you've written! While it is certainly possible to become more bodily aware it's an endeavour, on a global conciousness level, to point out role models. So enviroment and people in it play a massive part of what's going on, sounds obvious huh!

Well like RB often says that people allow themselves to succumb to the whims of life and people think they're powerless to affect their own behaiviour, in many ways, as I'll explain in a moment, they are indeed affecting their own lives by that behaviour, again sounds very obvious.

Now, when I began to learn wushu, it was from a book called ''The Basics of Long-style Boxing'' by Cheng Hui Kun [ame="http://www.amazon.com/Basics-Long-Style-Boxing-Chinese-Wushu/dp/7119015389"]Amazon.com: Basics of Long-Style Boxing (Chinese Wushu): Huikun Cheng: Books[/ame] What hit me the most was the organisation of the languaging. It was very different from other books were they are at a loss to fully define the original Chinese text, I found that by reading many translated texts and subtitles from Chinese spoken movies, the description of the meanings was almost stupid and simply didn't compare to conversational English, I'm sure you know what I mean.

This book is different it describes, how Long Style Boxing is popular among the masses and how it is enjoyed by children as it's movements are simple and nimble and perfect for the shape of your average Northern Chinese persons build, tall and slight, in descriptive English that is comprehensive, technical and easy to follow once co-ordinated thoroughly.

So, I'm reading a book that is describing very much how the psyche of people is viewed in Communist China or maybe by Chinese for a long time. What again struck me is the refernce to common mistakes, which when read from this book made apparent the types of mistakes that can be made are limited, a pattern structure.

For learning purposes applying concentrated effort is needed to learn this stuff, it becomes addictive, because of it's simplicity and never ending emphasis on improvement, technique and beauty or as described in the book, Romantic Charm!

Thanks to you too, Don and everyone else!

'scuse losing my performatives.

All I mean is in the west learning CMA I've noticed that we tend to FORCE our bodies into things ,that is push. Whereas the chinese in my experience FIND How to move that way not forcing it. this is a big difference to me.

I think the biggest difference is . In the west Health is moving away from illness. In the east Health is something they cultivate more and more. ie meta programs we get to health moving away from sickness as our motivation. Where they are drawn towards more and more health.

Naturally attracted to 'that was good! how can I do that better?' That getting better and better is continuous. A generative rather than remedial attitude.

Some times I think the Chinese might take over the world!

I'l stop rambling now

Have fun and do Good

Don wrote:

Whereas the chinese in my experience FIND How to move that way not forcing it. this is a big difference to me

That would be relaxation in movement through concentration, perhaps a goal already in mind and the coaching describes in a familiar way to Chinese people.


Don wrote:

I think the biggest difference is . In the west Health is moving away from illness. In the east Health is something they cultivate more and more. ie meta programs we get to health moving away from sickness as our motivation. Where they are drawn towards more and more health

That's a quest(ion) of survival and an exciting adventure to be, be with and enjoy everything life has to offer, a lot of things in Chinese culture have to do with appetite in all quaters. I heard a Feng Shui master describe this philosophy as ''seeing through all faces of the diamond'' very poetic and apt.

You are the diamond and the sides are the facets of life, keep them cut equal, balanced and beautiful

Don wrote:

Some times I think the Chinese might take over the world!

Bit late there mate, lol.

chikimonki wrote:

Hi Jonathon,

in my experience working with many western people who learn tai chi or similar things, the big problem seems to be the shoulders and the lack of awareness when it comes to remaining poised calm and relaxed.

I think this would be a great area as the problem seems so common.

Cheers mate

Hey Peter,
I am constantly correcting and educating clients / trainers about this. First of all they are not breathing correctly (chest breathers) which causes tension in the traps...I'm not going to go into the biomechanics of it all.

And the rest boils down to bad ergonomics in their work and home life which in turn creates bad body habits. I have had success in anchoring my voice so that they automatically check their posture throughout their days.

My latest technique that has worked well has been taking a piece of paper and warping it in front of them, and then showing them what it looks like when you try to force the curves back (creases etc) and then just pulling the ends so that it is pulled straight.
I emphasize that just extending their spine and keeping it supple will help create a better posture and muscle balance instead of jamming everything back and switching up the tension.

LOL! It's better in person! But I think you get the jiist!

One very interesting thing is that I often have clients become emotional when I do posture work with them. There is a release that happens.

*smile* Apologies if I am rambling this is something I am passionate about!

To get back on topic, I am looking forward to learning what Ron and Edie have to teach so that I can apply it in my days!

Have a healthy day!

Dear Isabelle,

Thanks, do you know I just can't be bothered. I learn things myself now for myself, I give up being passionate in that respect, got too much to do and I'm passionate about that.

Peter

*smile* Whatever works for you Peter!

This is what I do for a living so I'm happy to be passionate about it!

Isabelle

Rons work is a generative model. By improving functioning rather than 'fixing' it the body is transformed. This is the heart of what I'm saying.

Having been taught and tranced deeply by Ron I've learned mind blowing stuff. I got into PPT from my fascination with the body and biology.

My article on MA was a small reflection of what Ron has shown me about High Level Functioning. That is when the body is organised for peak physical expression. There are things about the capabilities of the body that we are only just uncovering. PPT isnt just about healing problems but exploring the limits of what possible in movement.

Moshe feldenkrais said ' At some point the Mind has to change for the Body to change'

Ron and Edie say' At some point the Body has to change for the Mind to change'

How to organise the body for full-body powerful harmony through the whole system.

Nowhere is it explicit how to educate the body from this percpective. Hence my interest in MA an Sport.

There's always more. More strength ,speed, coordination, fluidity, elegance possible. The question is how to 'speak' to the body. Physical Hypnosis for a change.

I think Rons work everyone should learn and find out whats possible. I have so many stories about these changes I'm still awe struck at unconscious learning. Like NLP there are many and varied physical patterns from animals to children to world class athletes and MA masters that we can learn from. When our eyes ears and body open up to more of whats actually there.
Good to hear from every one .Love what your all saying.
Here's to more intelligent organisation of purpose and possibility.
Don

Sounds fantabulous Don!

There is so much to discover and I love the fact that this approach co-operates with existing sophisticated systems.

Very interesting!

Isabelle

Peter's question was picked up and is going to be included on Dr Ron's next Podcast.

You can also meet Dr Ron in person when he's in London next month for the Advanced Master Prac program. Even if you're not on the course, there will be opportunities to hang out with him, ask questions and see what he can do. Message me for details.

Oh! cool

Listening to the podcast by Dr. Perry's and Jonathon Jenkyn and it's so interesting and a BIG thanks to them for answering my question, very informative and now I'll smile much bigger and brighter helping me be more balanced, cool!

As regard to the jin jin jitsu, I've probably written it wrong, I saw something written about here on NLPC is there a vid on youtube perhaps? There's Yi Chuan which means mind boxing and is very much to do with nature, energy, stillness, power, imagery excercise and basic growing with confidence and obviously the self-defence benefits.

I think it's the yi chuan style, because that was taken to Japan and practiced there, it is little known even in China where it was developed, in Shanghai and Beijing, Dachengquan Yiquan most famous experts training materials now available in english it's easy to learn and very powerful.

Chinese martial arts are very profound, taught in schools in China and barely heard of over here, I'll have to smile to redess the balance, yeah :-)