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Hi,
Has anyone worked with clients suffering from PTSD? more specifically combat related PTSD?

I am new to NLP and am very interested in finding out if NLP has been used to treat service men and women who have or are still suffering from PTSD relating to their experiences while serving their country.

Thanks in advance

Garreth,

Hi, welcome to the site.

There is a 'search the archive' option just on the left of the screen, under the NLP Forum tab. There was a very interesting thread about Ptsd only a month or so ago.

Here is the direct link,

Ptsd

Thanks

Matt

Thanks for the advice Matt.

I don't know about NLP, but I remember reading a book once about 10 years ago or so written by a combat veteran.

He said the best treatment for PTSD for folks who are currently in combat is to send them back to the front.

I don't know ... never having experienced combat ... that sounds so harsh. But, it may be true as long as that person is continually receiving the kind of support he or she needs to keep going.

I think of everyday folks who are suffering from PTSD and the like. They maybe (if they're lucky) get to see a really proficient counselor or psychotherapist once a week or so. And, you know what? Life goes on for them. They have to keep going to work or school or whatever and taking care of their family.

Unfortunately the world doesn't stop just because you are suffering, although it would be nice if it did! :-)

On the other hand, if you let the world stop while you are suffering then, it seems to me, you run the risk of just wallowing in your problems.

Whether you're dealing with day-to-day problems or the trauma of combat it seems to me that if you can just keep your eyes on the prize of the "highest good" (whatever the highest good might be for you -- and, depending on who you are, it might be the highest good you can do for others who are suffering in that situation) and with appropriate support, one can do just about anything.

Having said all that, I realize it is very easy to just sit back and be an "armchair quarterback". And that's nothing like being cast into the fray yourself.

I'd be very curious to hear what others -- who have more experience with this sort of thing -- have to say on this topic.

Regards,

Venus

Hi Garreth

Some while ago I put together a number of cognitive hypnotherapists who were prepared to volunteer their services for providing PTSD support.
All were NLP practitioners.

I contacted one of the main support groups for military service personnel who suffer from PTSD and our offer was turned down due to the politics that NLP is not a recognized treatment by the 'Nice' guidelines.

I also know that others have tried and failed due to the politics of the establishment and their attitudes towards NLP.
If you were offering EMDR no problem, despite the fact it would most likely take longer than NLP to get it's result , it is a recognized intervention for this issue and hence accepted practice.

Peter

Thanks for the heads up Peter regarding all the politics.

It is a shame that the welfare of our troops is still not the number one priority here.

I am an ex service man who has had NLP treatment and am still amazed at how quickly my life has changed for the better, and it is one of the main reasons why I am looking to change my career into NLP.

If you think about it ... I was de programmed as a civillian then re programmed to be an infantry soldier, then when I left there was nothing.

Now is it just me or does it make sense to re programme our men and women who then decide to leave the forces, and if necessary help those suffering from combat related PTSD as well regardless of popular opinion?

Our serving men and women need to have access to what works out there.

Garreth you raise some interesting points having been through the system it's self.

Many times I have heard it brought up that it would be very hard to gain rapport with the guys who have PTSD unless you were 'one of them' and understand their circumstances. I have no idea if this is true or just more deceit by the establishment and other people from more mainstream therapies circulation misinformation who do not want others in on their patch so as to speak.

What's your take on that point as an ex yourself?

I would have thought that preparing people to come back into civi street was sensible but costs money and the MOD are not exactly bothered once your feet hit the pavement from what I have observed from ex- service personal and these are the ones with PTSD. Effectively you become other peoples problems in which the NHS has a shortage of practitioners for speedy deployment.

Peter

Having been through the mill so to speak it is actually a valid point that serving soldiers make and not just deceipt by the establishment.

I spoke with a comrade of mine last year who went through the NHS route and he was put into a group of PTSD suferers who had had car accidents, electric shocks whilst doing DIY and others.

When it came to him talk about what he had gone through in Bosnia two of the group were actually sick and another one walked out.

He didnt attend another session asd he felt he couldnt relate to the rest of the group and he didnt want to negatively affect those who reacted so badly to his story.

I was in a very fortunate position of having been treated by my fiancee who was with me while i was serving and there was, from my point of view at least a trust and acknowledgement that she more or less understood what I had been through.

This is why I think I might have a little more initial sucess with serving personnel.

As for your second point it would be interesting to get hold of the figures it costs the NHS and other support organisations to deal with PTSD as it stands and not only that but the cost of the criminal justice system (which I include Policing, lawyers, prisons, rehab) etc and compare those figures to the cost of NLP practitioners.

Hi Garreth

your quote
"I was in a very fortunate position of having been treated by my fiancee who was with me while i was serving and there was, from my point of view at least a trust and acknowledgment that she more or less understood what I had been through.

This is why I think I might have a little more initial success with serving personnel".

This is a case in point. To actually deal with the subject in hand does not require content and understanding of the persons situation. I personally deal with PTSD content free. It serves no purpose to me to know the finer details of what took place. If it client believes that it will help if I know the details and they clearly want me to know than sure I will play ball with them.
The process is all I need in order to help them.

Rapport is essential and this is the interesting part regarding these particular group of sufferers. How to gain rapport and trust with the client in this case as you mention? If the soldiers were able to understand that this special process used does not involve going over and over the accounts of what happened and may only have to be dealt with once only to get effective change could this be achieved? They need someone on the inside to convince them that there are people out there who want to help them and use interventions that have been used as far back as Vietnam veterans with success and these do not involve the change-worker needing to understand their particular situation, just that they are seriously wanting to help them make a difference to their lives.

Your efforts might be better served as a recruitment agent to get this information to these people as you would automatically talk the lingo and be accepted. If you were an example of the change what better as an advertisement for others? This way you could get to many more people.

Not everyone who has a practitioner certificate is going to be able to do the change-work. Lots of hands on practice is needed and just like any other field of skill, some-people are better equipped than than others.

It's one reason why I do not feel comfortable with people who have become NLP trainers with hardly any practical experience of having used NLP effectively and consistently with a wide spectrum of people and issues.
It is another subject in itself.

Peter

Just to throw in two cents...

I seem to have read somewhere that Cognitive Behavioral Therapy works well with PTSD.

Anyone else know anything about this?

Phil

Hi Phil
apparently your right from what I been told.
Provided you have weeks to spare, sounds good

Peter

Well, Peter, anything that works...works! Quite honestly, I would think that a few weeks is a relatively brief therapeutic period, and much CBT is done, I believe, in a Brief Therapy context.

If someone can "cure" PTSD in one or two sessions, more power to them--and to the client!

Phil

Phil
most session lengths in CBT are around 10 ! (see below link, expected treatment 6 weeks to 6 months for various issues.)
That's ten weeks worth.

I'm not putting it down but come on,

It's better than a lot of other things I can think of from the therapy world.

It's not than speed is so important and I agree change is change BUT why spend longer than is necessary when their are interventions which can produce results faster and easier on the client. CBT is harder going from the clients perspective (from people who have done CBT and NLP and told me of the differences).

EMDR works very effectively but can take the same time span as CBT.

Cognitive Behavioural Therapy (CBT)


Peter

Peter,

Well, yes, quicker is generally better, in regards to treatment results, as long as it works.

I know there have been studies done in regards to the efficacy of CBT and EMDR. It would be interesting to see conparative studies using NLP techniques for PTSD.

And, I am not a therapist, so I cannot speak personally, in regards to treatment of patients.

It is my perception (from the limited time I have been exposed to NLP) that the NLP community, by and large, rejects being quantified with emperical data, but I'm wondering if it's high time that someone in the scientific community begin to step up to the plate and prove that it actually does work, and more effectively than other treatments.

Or, maybe I should just go back to what I'm doing. I don't know!

Phil

Peter,

Thanks for your comments regarding the non contextualising of change work. you are of course right that the subject need not reveal in detail the events of the trauma, but for some reason it helps to know that who you are talking to has some inclination of what it is you have gone through, which is why soldiers tend to talk to each other until finally some years later their ex caomrades are no longer around and they have to talk to someone else.

I agree with you also that with my level of training and experience i would be better suited in bringing people to a qualified NLP practitioner ... initially but how does one get a broad range of experiences with lots of clients, without actually going out there and doing it? However your thoughts on how to gain this very necessary experience would be very gratefully received.

Thanks

Gary

And I might be 'way off base here, but it's my understanding that rather than removing the fearful response to the trigger, the CBT approach focuses on training the client to tolerate greater levels of fear. So even leaving the time factor aside, I like the NLP approach much better. And although I understand it's a bit weird to some, and often frowned upon in the same sentence as NLP, I've had remarkable success using TFT on traumas of all kinds.

Hi Garreth

set up some sessions with a few experienced practitioners for PTSD

and sit in with them and model what they do.

This is why I believe trainers should be able to do it before they teach it.
Congruency is dreadfully lacking in some quarters regarding this point.
It does not have to be experience regarding PTSD, just experience with change work in general is the key. The level of rapport and calibration skills is usually the weak link for many, not the knowledge of what to do, although that to can be an issue from what I have seen.


Peter

Hi Bridgett
yea TFT and EFT can both be used to great effect. Same rules as NLP, no practitioner skill set in basic working, dubious results.

I agree with you regarding CBT which is why I do not use it in my practice.
Handy if you want to get into mainstream change work and then slip in NLP on the side

Peter

Peter,

Again thanks for the advice about gaining experience for change work.

I was thinking on the way to work this morning about what you had said regarding setting up a group of people who would volunteer their NLP services, and you not being allowed to because of 'nice' and other politics.

Why do we need to have permission to help people? We don't need permission to help anyone else (lots of people here run very successful businesses without needing permission from nice) so why dont we just do it anyway and let the results speak for themselves?

To coin a phrase from the film field of dreams ... 'if you build it they will come' ... there are literally hundreds of thousands of people living in the UK dealing with old mental wounds. A great model for this is the charity Help for Heroes. Agroup of like minded friends just decided to start and boy has it grown fast.

Have a great day

Gary

Anybody up for it?

Hi Garreth

yes that's true. I was maybe naive when I approached combat offering nearly 20 people wanting to help and had it thrown back in my face.

If you had the contacts and the foot in the door to access the people who need it you could count me in. I could get some others who are experienced at working with people ( they do this for a living) and are all insured and I know they can do it.

Peter