Hello everyone, I'm new to the forum and have a question about beliefs.

If a person has uncovered a set of "core beliefs" that they hold about themselves that are pretty fundamental ("I'll be rejected/I'm unloveable/I'm unloved/I'm not good enough" all in a cluster), what approaches for change are proven to be effective consistently? In this particular case the person is self-sabotaging and procrastinating, never fulfilling their potential. The uncovering of their core beliefs was a genuine surprise for them, they had been operating out of conscious awareness - consciously the person is striving to be positive and has a good opinion of themselves.

Your opinions would be appreciated.

Thanks,

Mike.

Hi Mike
Why not work on the language patterns which confirm these beliefs.
Try and help your friend expand his map through meta model and sleight of mouth.


Peter

Hi,


FWIW. my thoughts are:

once something has been brought into conscious awareness then the time is right for change.

I like the decision destroyer and time line therapy patterns but robert dilts belief change pattern using a 3x3 grid (1st,2nd, 3rd person vs past, present and future) is an excellent technique for exploring the limiting belief and setting a new empowering in the future.

There's also a great technique from thought field therapy which gets to the bottom of what's going on in the subsconscious ie) do i want to /able to /deserve to/ make this change by using ideomotor responses in the arm and doing a bit of tapping.


R.

Sleight of Mouth totally rocks for belief change, IMO.

swish works very well too

Back in prac training we learned switching out submodalities to shift beliefs, and that works a treat, but I've never heard of a swish applied to belief change. Can you explain how you'd use it to get that kind of result?

Hi Mike

This is way over my paygrade and I am not even a therapist but a cluster of beliefs would be one thing and a cluster of 'core beliefs' might be something that needs a whole set of interventions and new experience to go with it.

I am assuming you have done a values intervention to get to the core beliefs..

I would go for motivation. Let them get motivated out of it by helping them realign thier values in the relevant contexts so they can start to have new experiences that question some of those questionable beliefs.

I don't think it is one of those production line quick fix situations but that's just my opinion.

Hope that helps
James

BMcKenna wrote:

Back in prac training we learned switching out submodalities to shift beliefs, and that works a treat, but I've never heard of a swish applied to belief change. Can you explain how you'd use it to get that kind of result?

With swish, you use submodalities that affect intensity/significance. With ye olde submodality belief change you use submodalities of certainty and uncertainty.

So one way to do it is to just swish [ undesirable belief ] from present submodalities to submodalities of uncertainty, and swish [ desired belief ] from submodalities of uncertainty to submodalities of certainty. Rinse and repeat as per usual.

Cheers,

James T

Hi Bridget

Just to add to what James T wrote. You have probably seen the "Nlp Swish Pattern" from Derren Brown which I have seen posted many times. It is the one where he apparently changes the colour perception of someone and she does not recognize her car, set in las vegas.

If I am correct, Derren is actually using this to change the belief about the colour, and if, that is correct, it could also be concidered an anchor chain, in my opinion.

James

Best thing I have ever seen for rewiring core belief structure is Knowledge Engineering combined with Sleight of Mouth - just awesome...

Hi Mog

How does Knowledge Engineering work?

James

Mog wrote:

Best thing I have ever seen for rewiring core belief structure is Knowledge Engineering combined with Sleight of Mouth - just awesome...

Agreed. Knowledge Engineering rocks - and goes beautifully with sleight of mouth.

As I recall, it's such a useful combination that Jonathan Altfeld and Doug O'Brien offer a course called Belief Craft, designed precisely for this purpose - combining Doug's sleight of mouth expertise and Jonathan's KE material.

Matter of fact - if my memory serves, they've even taken it a step beyond that ...

For people who really want to take their skills at working with belief systems to a whole other level, Jonathan and Doug are now offering a super spiffy new course called Advanced Belief Craft.


... say - aren't they running that program for the first time right here in Melbourne, in May?

robert dilts belief change pattern using a 3x3 grid (1st,2nd, 3rd person vs past, present and future) is an excellent technique for exploring the limiting belief and setting a new empowering in the future.

I haven't heard of this one, Richard. Could you explain, or give a source wherein I can find more details about it?

Thanks.

Gabe has also been working with belief change interventions which he calls Bandler argumentation patterns.a mix of slight if mouth 2.0 as he jokes and pollya patterns of plausibility.
Well worth going on one of his courses( gabe and Eric ) for advanced lanuage patterns to learn it.

Peter

Gabe has also been working with belief change interventions which he calls Bandler argumentation patterns.a mix of slight if mouth 2.0 as he jokes and pollya patterns of plausibility.
Well worth going on one of his courses( gabe and Eric ) for advanced lanuage patterns to learn it.

Peter

I'd strongly recommend Clean Language, first developing a good solid metaphor for what the person would like to have happen (instead of this belief cluster), and then if neccessary working back through the beliefs to discover what needs to happen to achieve it.

Mike Whiting wrote:

Hello everyone, I'm new to the forum and have a question about beliefs.

If a person has uncovered a set of "core beliefs" that they hold about themselves that are pretty fundamental ("I'll be rejected/I'm unloveable/I'm unloved/I'm not good enough" all in a cluster), what approaches for change are proven to be effective consistently? In this particular case the person is self-sabotaging and procrastinating, never fulfilling their potential. The uncovering of their core beliefs was a genuine surprise for them, they had been operating out of conscious awareness - consciously the person is striving to be positive and has a good opinion of themselves.

Your opinions would be appreciated.

Thanks,

Mike.

My first step would be to chain their genuine surprise to a state of laughter and good humour at the ridiculous aspects of the situation. If we can laugh at our selves then it is much easier to see our behaviour as a role and not a part of who we are. Sleight of mouth patterns absolutely and Frank Farrelly style humour and provocation.

As there are a cluster of self sabotaging beliefs, you will get better leverage for change by working on the level of identity. Once you have laughter you already have dissociation and you can work on exploring what "that other character who had those self limiting beliefs" was trying to achieve and what they'd get up to in different situations.

Have that character go through a series of fun hypnotic adventures as they discover resources and choices. Amplify all the kicker submodalities for them being the best they can be as you reassociate them.

Make sure they have a suitable chain of states that goes quickly from self sabotage to the new resource. Use behavioural tasking to safely introduce them to having new choices in different contexts.

Best of Luck

Gustav wrote:

I haven't heard of this one, Richard. Could you explain, or give a source wherein I can find more details about it?

Thanks.

Richard's talking about Roberts SOAR model which incorporates Perceptual Positions, Time and Neurological Levels as a 3D used for all sorts of things including belief change, exercise design, organisational change consultancy.

You can get Roberts take on it from the NLP Encyclopaedia here: So-Sto

It's a great model for pulling a lot of NLP together and a really flexible tool for use with clients for all sorts of change work.

Cheers

John

Good to see you posting again John.

Gustav,

the core belief change process is described in Dilts Changing Beliefs with NLP book as far as I recall.

I did see a good link on the internet a while back tho I can't find it now but will look again and post it if I can find it.

Dilts also does something similar in Tools of the Spirit and of course the core belief change forms is combined with neuro-logical levels in his attempt at creating a unified theory of NLP.

R.