james_t wrote:

With swish, you use submodalities that affect intensity/significance. With ye olde submodality belief change you use submodalities of certainty and uncertainty.

So one way to do it is to just swish [ undesirable belief ] from present submodalities to submodalities of uncertainty, and swish [ desired belief ] from submodalities of uncertainty to submodalities of certainty. Rinse and repeat as per usual.

Cheers,

James T

There is also a step in between where you swish the desired belief into the submodalities of something that doesn't matter.... ever so quickly before swishing new desired one into submodalities of strong belief.

This is so that that the state of doesn't matter makes the change easier to go in the new direction... but it's gotta be quick made with exaggerated swishing sound and rinse and repeat at least 5 times to get the full impact.

Cheers
Nina

james_t wrote:

With swish, you use submodalities that affect intensity/significance. With ye olde submodality belief change you use submodalities of certainty and uncertainty.

So one way to do it is to just swish [ undesirable belief ] from present submodalities to submodalities of uncertainty, and swish [ desired belief ] from submodalities of uncertainty to submodalities of certainty. Rinse and repeat as per usual.

Cool recombination noted. Makes perfect sense. I've even done it, but wasn't calling it a swish. Silly me.

Thanks all of you. More angles are always better.

Hey everyone, many thanks for all your suggestions of techniques. I ended up using the meta model to get more specifics about the "not good enough" belief and it turned out to be a mother issue. So, the recommendation is 7-10 years of psychoanalysis blaming the parent and a lifetime of prescription mood enhancers. Should sort it out nicely!!

Mike.

I did see a good link on the internet a while back tho I can't find it now but will look again and post it if I can find it.

Thanks, Richard. I have read Dilts' "Beliefs: The pathway to health and well-being". Guess there is something more in the other one.

Suggestable wrote:

Hi Mog

How does Knowledge Engineering work?

James

In this case,as a way of explicating the thought processes that the belief is essentially a snapshot of.

Thanks Andrew

I have been giving this some thought and reading up on some links to more details. It seems to me that you model the structure of the snapshot explications(?) and stick it into the properties of an artifitial intelligent computer program. Click a button and 'hey presto'.

I doubt that's very accurate (my theory) but if I am correct, it seems like a long winded way of going about getting good results. Who knows.

I also thought 'core beliefs' were a little more different to crack than 'ordinary beliefs' so I need to look into that too.

more knowledge?

James

Hi James (you know, it just seems weird writing or saying that) ...

Your doubts are well founded, as your impression of KE is wildly inaccurate.

If you'd like to find out more, you can get the home study kit, attend a live KE training or locate somebody who is relatively well-versed in KE to do you a live demo (which shouldn't be too hard if you're anywhere near Melbourne or London).

Cheers,

James T

james_t wrote:

(which shouldn't be too hard if you're anywhere near Melbourne or London)

On the other hand, if you're in Johannesburg ... well then that might be a little more tricky.

Hi James T

That's exactly what I was saying if you would like to re-read.
My doubts are of the accuracy of my impression of KE. That's exactly what I said in so many words.

Does this mean you don't use a computer program to do Knowledge Engineering?

James

James

If I was anywhere near Melbourne I would be talking to you about your courses more than I have done already. I am in mexico.

Suggestable wrote:

Does this mean you don't use a computer program to do Knowledge Engineering?

It does (although you can - but that's a whole other barrel of monkeys).

Knowledge engineering is something that people do to develop 'expert systems': computer programs that 'think' like human experts, by operating with a system of rules that replicate the experts' decision strategies.

Jonathan Altfeld was a professional knowledge engineer before becoming an NLP trainer, and has adapted the principles and process of knowledge engineering to modeling belief systems (note: systems - beliefs don't exist in isolation).

It's an extraordinarily useful approach to explicit (analytic) modeling, and to working with belief systems for the purpose of facilitating change.

Cheers,

James T

Hi. someone mentioned someone in Melbourne doing KE. Any further help there.


cheers

Lee

Hi Lee,

Check your inbox - I just sent you a PM.

Cheers,

James T

Ask him to describe how he would be like to be identified when the new belief dawns on him (ensure the submodalities match with his strong belief)
use the reverse of DILTS model

Elicit the environement, behaviour, capabilites,values and identity

the easeist is to work one or two seesions on the environment

ask for assignment to be done before thenext session

similar youcanmeove to enxt levels
thius is how i do belief change pattern in my coaching sssions

Dr.P.T.Sunderam

How about an in trance progression from a young age with instructions to the unconscious to find counter examples and other learnings/conclusions that were not considered the last time around...and use these as foundation for modifying old or creating new beliefs....and ask the unconscious to incorporate these findings in an ecological way......this might get to the core.........anekant

Mike Whiting wrote:

Hello everyone, I'm new to the forum and have a question about beliefs.

If a person has uncovered a set of "core beliefs" that they hold about themselves that are pretty fundamental ("I'll be rejected/I'm unloveable/I'm unloved/I'm not good enough" all in a cluster), what approaches for change are proven to be effective consistently? In this particular case the person is self-sabotaging and procrastinating, never fulfilling their potential. The uncovering of their core beliefs was a genuine surprise for them, they had been operating out of conscious awareness - consciously the person is striving to be positive and has a good opinion of themselves.

Your opinions would be appreciated.

Thanks,

Mike.

Hey Mike,

Tom & Kim's 3dMind process is for me the only one "belief change technique" in the NLP and changework field that's even close to being consistently effective. It's easy to learn and as easy to use on yourself as to lead others through it.

Have fun

Bart

Ps: the "I'm NOT good enough" is not a core belief.. it's just a statement about what they are NOT ... not what they are.

Neither is I'm unloveable.

... what kind of person beliefs that they are unloveable...

"I'll be rejected" is not a core belief either .. it's just a projection.. or what we call a symptom.

Hi Bart, a very interesting post, are you able to tell us more on how to uncover the real core belief of the client


thanks


Lee

I was told that subliminal Hypnosis CDs work on same wavelengths as NLP to create a TRANCEFORMATION.

Could there be a EYESCAN machine in the future to see into the eyes just as the Optometrist does ?

Eating patterns help in telling us the persons likes and dislike,e.g.: If one eats potato-chips with coffee instead of Choco-biscuits , he may be a loser on timeliness and a harried man ?...