jonathanaltfeld wrote:

I gave my response to Michael in the prior post.

In the above question, you're making it clear that your outcomes are NOT the same as Michael's, and anytime you're pushing your outcomes over your client's, it comes off as incongruent and pushy for them.

The one salesguy on the lot who can sell to me is the guy who can convince me that he's set his own ego & goals aside, to help me achieve all of mine.

If you constantly stay stuck inside your own mindset, you'll never become a better persuader.

I'm getting the sense that you're operating from a mindset that says 'if a customer walks off the lot today, he's not coming back.' Personally, I wouldn't ever want to be that salesman, and I wouldn't ever want to buy from him.

Be the guy they WANT to come back to the next day. Can you?

Try something different. Don't even try to sell your customers today. Convince them you'd rather have them come back tomorrow after they've thought it over and decided it would be a great choice. And then you want them coming back to you in 4 or 6 or 10 years again -- because they had a good buying experience with you.

- Jonathan Altfeld

Jonathan, I want to address one important point you made in this post:
"
I'm getting the sense that you're operating from a mindset that says 'if a customer walks off the lot today, he's not coming back.' Personally, I wouldn't ever want to be that salesman, and I wouldn't ever want to buy from him.

Be the guy they WANT to come back to the next day. Can you?

Try something different. Don't even try to sell your customers today. Convince them you'd rather have them come back tomorrow after they've thought it over and decided it would be a great choice. And then you want them coming back to you in 4 or 6 or 10 years again -- because they had a good buying experience with you."

I completely agree with you. There are two problems with this. 1, it is a documented fact that the majority of the time the customer will buy elsewhere. However, you have more knowledge than I do and I will concede that I just haven't been flexible enough, nor confident enough, to believe that I can distinguish myself and change that. 2. and this is significant, I understand this, and you understand this, but the managers don't, and refuse to rely on what we in the business call "be-backs." I have been fired from one place for allowing my customers to leave without buying today. Managers put a premium on getting them to buy NOW for the reasons in point 1. of my answer. In fact, the place that fired me the manager lost two sales for me because my customers overheard him yelling at me for being incompetent, and a bad salesman because I didn't "close" them today, but instead was allowing them to leave without making a commitment NOW. He subsequently fired me when I told him that I'm a grown man and that he should never talk to me like that again. The plain truth is that a manager does not want to hear from a salesman, "I feel strong about this deal. I have a good rapport with this customer and I know that if I follow up with her she will eventually buy from us." Instead, they want you to eliminate every reason they give for not buying today.
I hope I made myself clear.

russianbear wrote:

I completely agree with you. There are two problems with this. 1, it is a documented fact that the majority of the time the customer will buy elsewhere. However, you have more knowledge than I do and I will concede that I just haven't been flexible enough, nor confident enough, to believe that I can distinguish myself and change that. 2. and this is significant, I understand this, and you understand this, but the managers don't, and refuse to rely on what we in the business call "be-backs." I have been fired from one place for allowing my customers to leave without buying today. Managers put a premium on getting them to buy NOW for the reasons in point 1. of my answer. In fact, the place that fired me the manager lost two sales for me because my customers overheard him yelling at me for being incompetent, and a bad salesman because I didn't "close" them today, but instead was allowing them to leave without making a commitment NOW. He subsequently fired me when I told him that I'm a grown man and that he should never talk to me like that again. The plain truth is that a manager does not want to hear from a salesman, "I feel strong about this deal. I have a good rapport with this customer and I know that if I follow up with her she will eventually buy from us." Instead, they want you to eliminate every reason they give for not buying today.
I hope I made myself clear.

Hi Tony,

Yes, I'm aware it's a documented fact that the majority of time the customer will buy elsewhere if he leaves the lot -- but then it's also a well known stereotype that most people 'hate car salesmen' and 'hate care sales tactics.'

The most successful salespeople are not those that perfectly represent the dealerships or their sales organizations. You might think so -- you might think that that would portray a more congruent experience to customers -- all that does is distance customers from salespeople.

The most successful salespeople are those who create the perception in the minds of customers... that they are NOT exclusively the sales organization's rep -- but that they are also MY rep. That they want me to think & feel that they are more of a 'broker' -- than a sales rep. That their job is to bring everyone to the table, not just get my money.

So what I'm proposing is that anytime you sense a person is not at all congruently ready to buy -- you send them away with post-hypnotics -- you propose tasks for them to do after they leave your lot -- become an educator (with influence) and then when they go do what you're recommending, and if they get positive results from that, they begin to create a sense of reciprocity to you in kind.

Ex: "I know you're not ready to buy today. So I'd like to make some recommendations to you to pursue, since I'd rather have your long term loyalty than just one sale. -- Go research X or Y. You're going to find Z. Check out dealership A B or C, you're going to find D. That's what's out there, that's what you'll find today if you look around. Keep in mind it's the middle of the month, and most of my colleagues will walk away from an ultimatum you make today -- but in 2 weeks at the end of the month, they might cave in. I'm already ready to give you $500 over invoice, no negotiating required, but unless you're ready to do business, until you've done the research you feel you need to do, you won't be a happy customer of mine. And I always want my customers to be happy. (There's a reason I'm not very popular here!)."

All these phrasings are designed to extend your influence beyond the present moment. When all the things you describe 'come true' or are 'found to be true' when the customer researches it, you gain credibility.

Everyone would prefer to buy from a salesperson that has credibility, over a sea of others that either don't, or might not. They've already made headway with you, why would they go elsewhere unless they prefer a different make/model so much that they can't get it from you?

OK -- as to your point about managers -- that's the more problematic one, and there's no easy answer since most sales managers rose through the ranks because they were very effective at pushy sales (the stereotypes) but awful at generating "be-backs." So they're going to be blind to your tactics.

Unless... you can QUICKLY document the number of "be-backs" you close, compared to those of your peers. If you can document that you close significantly more "be-backs" than other salespeople do, then many asinine sales managers who might have been ready to pinkslip you, would be willing to give you some additional leeway to do your own brand of magic with customers.

Regards,

- Jonathan

russianbear wrote:

I have to think this man has sold a car or two in his day. This is just brilliant. I will definitelb be using this. This is why I love Mr. Altfeld.

Jonathan and I have known each other for many years, so he knows a lot more about me that he could use to his advantage than you could learn in a few minutes. All he really did, though, was speak to my values through my "away-from" filter. If reality had been closer to what he was saying -- if my vehicle had started getting on my nerves -- it'd likely have inspired me to start looking to trade.

Jonathan,
I just want you to know that I'm busting my, uh, behind, to have a great month so I can come see you in Texas. Nice weather, clean air, and some good old-fashioned NLP sales training. I must ask you, can I be you for Halloween? I mean, I was going to be a vampire, or a soldier, or something like that, but I think maybe I could throw on a suit and be you for Halloween. Just need your ok for that one.

And let me take this opportunity to thank everyone here who has contributed and helped me. I can't wait until I am in a position to return the favor.

-Tony (Jonathan Altfeld's twin)

russianbear wrote:

I understand this, and you understand this, but the managers don't, and refuse to rely on what we in the business call "be-backs." I have been fired from one place for allowing my customers to leave without buying today.

You'll have to sell a lot of cars in a month to make yourself valuable enough to have them let you do this.

russianbear wrote:

I think maybe I could throw on a suit and be you for Halloween.

Don't forget the horns.

Perhaps I'll just go with plan B, I'll go as George Estabrooks. Unfortunately, I don't know what he looked like.

-Tony (Altfeld's #1 fan)

You guys are too funny. Sure, go as me for Halloween. Just don't scare the local kids too much.

jonathanaltfeld wrote:

You guys are too funny. Sure, go as me for Halloween. Just don't scare the local kids too much.

I'll trade you the candy I get for some more sales help.

-Tony

Great thread. Plenty of good advice.

I have liked the conversations because of my interest in NLP and my occupation of car sales.

It has been interesting to see and hear the different approaches to sales and how we should be trying to 'persuade' our clients.

I've been lucky (I think!?) to have been a sales manager as well as front line sales member. To be honest the most important aspect I have found in sales is a constant believe in yourself. This is were basic NLP helps enormously.

Sales is a process. Repeat it enough and you will get a sale. What is the process? Well that would depend on your business and basically down to yourself. 'There is no failure - only feedback'. Simply, in my business it is building rapport, asking the right questions, finding the need (or the pain), aligning the solution to me and asking for the business.

I have used NLP in all of my sales processes. Some of these I found I did naturally (full of charm!!), others I learned or adapted. Whenever my process 'failed' I could look at were it went wrong and make a qualified judgment. Was my mood right? Did I build the rapport? Did I leverage my approach to the customer? Could I have helped? You won't suceed all the time. I used to tell new employees that a third of all customers will always buy from you, a third will never and a third might. It is those last third you need to be really skilled with. This is were you must practise your skills. I would also tell all my team, more than once, 'You loose 100% of all the business you don't ask for'

I trust this thread will help shed light on some good NLP mix sales tips. Most customers are looking for a skilled sales proffesional to help them decide.

Any one have some good advice?

Dave,
I must correct something you said. There has NOT been a lot of good advice, there has been a lot of GREAT advice in this thread. I'm indebted to everyone.

I am finding out, more and more, it is more about internal confidence and less about other techniques.

Can you elaborate more on finding the pain and turning it up?

my name is Bonnie Gruber and I have been a severe victom of nlp-hypnosis abuse and it is still going on. People think I'm crazy. Mind Contoll of family and friends. All my resources have been taken. Money, transportation and communications. I only have 2 min. to complete this at this time. My address is 247 43rd St in Port Townsend, Wa 98368. Email scared21@live.com

scared21 wrote:

my name is Bonnie Gruber and I have been a severe victom of nlp-hypnosis abuse and it is still going on. People think I'm crazy. Mind Contoll of family and friends. All my resources have been taken. Money, transportation and communications. I only have 2 min. to complete this at this time. My address is 247 43rd St in Port Townsend, Wa 98368. Email scared21@live.com

What the f is this, why is it on my post? This adds absolutely nothing to my Ben Feldman post. I'm certain this person is not stable.

-Tony (Altfeld's mini-me)

russianbear wrote:

What the f is this, why is it on my post? This adds absolutely nothing to my Ben Feldman post. I'm certain this person is not stable.

-Tony (Altfeld's mini-me)

Could it be one of your customer's who is a bit upset with you.

It's easy to let these powerful NLP skills go to your head.

John

Last night I lay in bed looking up at the stars in the sky and I thought to myself I must get that ceiling fixed

russianbear wrote:

Dave,


Can you elaborate more on finding the pain and turning it up?

It was put really well before. We either go towards a want or go away from a situation. Tony Robbins puts it as the 'Pain or Pleasure'. As humans we are more prone to stick with something we know isn't good or causing pain. Things such as over eating, staying in a poor relationship, smoking or in my case the customer is happy with their car...no matter how old, decrepit or wrong for their needs. Now without hurting their ego about their bad decision to hold on to the car or their deep affection (does happen) to it I have to pull them away from the attachment.

I do this in several ways.

• I have a chart showing them how much an old car will cost annually. I use authoritative views from magazines and consumer advice leaflets. (I call it the authoritative close - they tend not to argue if it is from a trusted source). The pain is how much this car is costing them. I ask them questions they cannot deny. Have you bought new tyres? Any work in the last six months? Have you had a quote for that nasty ding? 9 times out of 10 this car has cost them money and it is like throwing good money after bad!!
• A good one these days is the environment and fuel costs. They can't compare to modern cars.
• How does the family feel? Do they have to transport others around? Is it easy to get in and out of?
• Safety? How safe is that car in a crash?

I suppose you get the picture. Magnifying the negatives motivates the person to move away from the pain. You can be creative and find many reasons to change, however your skill as an NLP'r is to do it so the person is making the choice. We can all be stubborn and we do not like being told we are doing wrong.

I use a lot of rapport in these instances. I almost become like the person. I feel their pain. Mirroring, having empathy and reframing. Skills we can all learn. Generally I find people slowly realise it is time to give up the old car. If I am there with the solution (the pleasure) then I'm highly likley to get the sale without even asking for it.

Reading through my post it almost seems like it is too clinical (I find some aspects of NLP to be like this) but even today I have had 2 customers I recently dealt in this way who made their way in to my work place to tell me how much better their new cars were and how they didn't know why they didn't change earlier. I knew why they changed but that is my secret. I'm happy they made the choice themselves.

If anybody thinks the customers were manipulated then you could be right. All I know is they were extremely happy and to a stage where they both wrote a note to my boss praising my 'professionalism'. I'll come on to how I got them to do that in a later post.

I'm away for a few days now. I will catch up with this thread later. Hopefully I'll be able to read some other persons experiences. NLP is all about modelling what works.

z8000783 wrote:

Could it be one of your customer's who is a bit upset with you.

It's easy to let these powerful NLP skills go to your head.

John

Last night I lay in bed looking up at the stars in the sky and I thought to myself I must get that ceiling fixed

You are mistaken when you make the assumption that I have NLP skills. As you can see, I have none. That's why I'm here, trying to suck as much free knowledge out of you as my cheap ass can.

russianbear wrote:

You are mistaken when you make the assumption that I have NLP skills. As you can see, I have none.

Perhaps that's why she's upset.

Who have you sold a car to this week?

John

z8000783 wrote:

Perhaps that's why she's upset.

Who have you sold a car to this week?

John

Last week I sold a car to a young man. This week two women and a gentleman. All are mentally stable and very, very, very satisfied. If there's one thing I provide, it's good customer service.

russianbear wrote:

Last week I sold a car to a young man. This week two women and a gentleman. All are mentally stable and very, very, very satisfied. If there's one thing I provide, it's good customer service.

Not 100% though it seems.

John

Come to my dealership, I'll show you.