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hi adrian, i...love...the...ironic...and...i...loved...your.. .post!..maybe...zombie...was...a
...bit(and only a bit)...strong!..let...me...put...it...
another...
way...if...i...may!..does...michael...want...to... be...a...joiner...for...ever...or...
does...he...aspire...to...be...a...Carpenter...or. ..Master Carpenter...1...day!..


Peace&love...vern


p.s...we...are...all...attached... adrian!

I heard Jesus was a carpenter, is there any connection?

Artur, I'm personally having trouble following. I could interject some thought if you'd be kind enough to clarify greater the difference between what a life coach would do and what you would do. Thank you.

Hi All,

Vern's welcome to his opinion.

And with all due respect to Vern, I'd like to go meta for a moment and use this discussion as an example of the principals I was putting forward.

Vern has offered me some feedback.

And when I examine his feedback, I use two questions in sequence to determine the weight I will give his feedback.

The first question I ask myself is, 'Personalities and suchlike aside, is there something relevant to me here?'.

I have a quick think about it and then I do a gut check in that context. If I get nothing, I go on.

The second question is, 'Who is giving me this feedback?'.

If someone I really respect is providing me the feedback, and it's in an area that I consider them to be knowledgeable or insightful about, then I will double back and think about it in much more detail.

Now this sequence is artificial. It's a sequence I've created the habit of doing automatically.

And most people have much less egalitarian criteria. If one doesn't meet their criteria, one's feedback usually gets discounted immediately, out of hand.

Now of course anyone who's experienced my work knows that, although I use NLP in many ways, NLP isn't all or even most of what I do.

And, in the context of 'NLP Connections', I tend to focus more on NLP here that I might otherwise. And if someone assumes that what I write like here is all I do and the only way I think, well, it's not surprising that they might jump to some very wrong conclusions if they think that's all I am.

So, Vern's feedback seems to be based on an awful lot of mind-reads based on his very contextually limited experience of me.

And although I take it into consideration, it doesn't pass question 1 and Vern has offered me no valid criteria (that I have experienced, at any rate) to have it trigger question 2.

Now, If I'd read something or things previously from Vern that demonstrated his ability or insight, I would have weighted his feedback differently.

Now keep in mind that I'm pretty sure Vern is probably a nice fellow in person. And he might even have some kind of fantastic directionality in mind for me that would revolutionize my life and work! It's possible!

And if he doesn't give me that information in a way I can clearly understand or tell me why I should listen to him if he tells me something that isn't ringingly self-evident, I'm afraid that this opportunity, if that is what it is, is one that I will miss.

So, if you're putting yourself in a position of coaching or advising others, and if you know your information and advice can be valuable, I'd suggest, for your own sake and for theirs, that you give them a reason to listen to you.

At least that's my experience.

Be Well,

Michael Perez

With all due respect to Michael, I don't know how he can do such a lengthy post when we haven't even found out what specifically Vern means by NLP Zombie!

Hi Sam,

Because my post was Meta to the thread(see the 2nd paragraph) and therefore to my zombification. I'm sure that Vern will clarify (or not) as he sees fit.

Now I'm a bit peckish, so I'll go see if I've got some brains in the fridge...

Be Well,

Michael Perez

I hope they're calves brains...

All that typing and here I am still splitting my sides over Al's atrophic bodyparts

Laughter is a great medicine.

To the tune of Yesterday by the Beatles

Sam, the main difference would be a focus on the client using the knowledge he has (or is getting during the training he goes to) instead of working on solving some specyfic problem or generate some specyfic result.

For example, your average NLP practicioner, in my experience, will use most of the things he learned during the course maybe once in a month - if some problem gets too big for them to just go and bear it, THEN they'll remember they can re-anchor it, swish it, etc. In the meantime, all these wonderfully useful tools will just remain there, wasted. They'll have a hell of a lot of poor beliefs to change - but they just won't be bothered to look for them and change them, etc.

So the main task of a personal trainer in self-development (or PTSD as I've started to call the job I'll need to find a name with a better acronym ) will be to create in their customer habits of using the knowledge they have regularly, of finding areas in which to implement it, plan ways to implement it, and have them actually do it. And, of course, if neccessary, clarify how certain things which they've learned work and help improve them.

Again, this is not a service for everyone - many people will just say 'pay for it? I can do it on my own' - and they will. Others however will want it done faster or will want that other person on hand to help them getting through it and actually doing it- and that's what I'm aiming for.

Michael, I agree with you on the 'prove you have results yourself' issue - which is one of the reasons why I'm thinking about doing it in Poland, where I already have established some reputation for myself in the self-development field over the past years. Young as I am, I've been pretty active there

Hi Arthur,

We used to have the thing you're looking for. They were called courses.

Specifically, the Practitioner courses I used to run 20 years ago.

My Prac track was eight two-and-a-half-day weekends long. That's Friday evening, all day Saturday, all day Sunday, adding up to 20 days.

And even tho, on four of those eight weekends, we had a US visiting trainer, I was there for all of it - every weekend - keeping an eye on my students, nudging them - you would say "coaching them" - as we went along.

As were my three hand-picked-by-me and thoroughly-trained-by-me assistants.

The weekends were three weeks apart (for most folks, four was too many, two was deemed too few. "Oh, I can't - I've got this fixture, I've got that fixture … I can’t manage.") But IN ADDITION, for all those who lived within reasonable transport reach of central London, I ran a three-hour practice session every Wednesday.

Did you hear what I said? I ran.

Not some assistant. Not some "I've only done a seven-day Prac track myself, but … " Not some "I got these ideas for exercises out of a book … "

I ran 'em. To my standards, and to my level of satisfaction (which even then, were pretty high - my students told me so, after they went off and socialized or trained with the graduates of other "practitioner" programs).

And every Wednesday. For 20 or so Wednesdays. Making another 10 days.

So I was personally and continuously involved with 50 students each year …. and I got on their case, every chance I got, and on a weekly basis, As well as giving them encouragement and praise when they did well.

It seemed to work. Some of my students have gone on to be exemplars in the field and/or excellent at what they do. Ho hum.

The "personal service" you are looking for exists (or used to). It's called proper training.

Eric.

PS. If you meet Mateusz Grzesiak while you're in Poland, give him my regards, and tell him he still owes me a copy of that video tape.

Hi Eric,

As some say in the American Bible Belt, "Amen, preach it brother!"

And there are still a few Pracs that are like this, they're just scarce as hen's teeth. If you find one, my advice is to book it.

Be Well,

Michael Perez

if such courses exist, where are they? Who runs them? How can I get hold of one?

Hi Abdul

Since this I an NLP forum and there are many trainers that read these posts. Perhaps the trainers that do run this type of training can let you know.

I did a 18 day prac course over 5 weekends (thurs night, all day Fri ,Sat and Sun.) So they are around and IMO highly recommend.

Have agreat day

Frederic

Absolutement Fred!

But just to make a point of order- it was Perez-San's necrotic Corpus - not mine!

I have have unlocked the mystery of the Man's clever erm. bits. he's consuming brains, and is therefore the amalgam of all those intelligences he's scoffed.

Eric, loved the post, and would you consider running a semi regular practice group? I for one would attend - if it was within reasonable proximity (I recall you live in scotland)! I am sure that there would enough demand to ask a modest fee for said event.

Al

Hey, buddy, if the parts are in your possession, they're yours, no matter who they fell off of to begin with.

I hope you get as much use outta that shin as I did!

Be Well,

Michael Perez

Without getting out my soapbox and ranting until the sun goes down, let me just say that I'm with Eric here.

And Abdul, there are a few of us who train like that - you just need to snoop around a bit to find the best options that are accessible to you.

Cheers,

James

hi James,

is there a list that you could point me to where i could go snooping, because when i google it, it's too confusing.

hi Michael, its...all...nested...nicely...mate!

peace&love...vern

Hi Abdul,

This is probably one of those times that Google will not be your friend. Very few trainers will write that their trainings are anything less than excellent and even most reviews are from people who do not have a broad experience of taking various Prac courses from which that might make informed comparisons.

One good set of guidelines for evaluating Prac courses might be this one.

And I don't know who in particular might be doing Pracs right now in the UK to standards of the sort that Eric did and can do or of the sort that I know James delivers at the moment.

And as not all trainers are as dedicated, skilful or knowledgeable as these two are, I'd say it's worth your time to investigate your training choices as well as your choice in trainers.

Be Well,

Michael Perez

Hi Abdul,

I'm not suggesting that your snooping should necessarily end in one of these places (although it might), but it might be worth your while starting with one of these guys:

ABL World (Paul Belcher and Judy Apps)

Salad (Jamie Smart)

Pegasus NLP (Reg Connolly)

Check out their websites, call them up for a chat, find out who else they recommend, etc. Use them as a starting point for your snooping. You may find that one of them ticks all the boxes, as it were - or you might find that all paths lead to some other trainer. And best of luck!

Cheers,

James