CornelisBlokland wrote:

that a lot of people get into NLP so that they can teach other people NLP for loadsa money!!!

Corn you hit a bugbear of mine - I mean the idea of that makes all the learning pointless, and churnes it into some predetermined spin cycle..grumble.. bah.


Al

Whattt!!??!
People training in stuff...
...and then teaching it...
...to make money???!!

How could they...??

I didn't communicate well enough in my post - tho Corn said it aptly.

So "what he said" basically.

The original post didnt mention training or teaching.

It was more about the fact that NLP is becoming (as i rather cheekily put it) 'mainstream'. Along with Word processing 'skills' it is being mentioned more and more in certain job specs.

Push your own 'time travel' button and zoom forward to a time when all or most organisations have their own 'version' of an in house NLP specialist.

Good thing / bad thing / doesnt matter ?

I have no views either way, just wondered what the panel thinks.

Cheers,

Mark

Yup - I was off on a tangent (I am paid to bring threads off topic dontcha know!).

WRT the core of th thread... hmmm - i don't see it taken up by the mainstream as far as having a specialist goes, and I think instead more of the NLP skillet will be assimilated into HR type roles...

Yes, most of the roles are in the thrill a minute world of HR or training (not NLP training)

Cheers,

Mark

Hi Mark,

Before I changed the focus of my work, I was the in-house NLPer for many years inside of some sizeable international corporations, so I've got some first hand experience of the topic.

In the US, there has been a good awareness of NLP in HR (including Training) and Sales organisations for many years.

Actually, last I checked, this trend was ebbing in the US as so many different approaches to doing these things were incorporating many of the distinctions originally put forward in the context of NLP and the problem of no real correlation between certification and proficiency made it difficult for HR people to know who to hire, kind of like the flood of paper IT experts with er real skills at the end of the 90's.

And as the curve of NLP seems to be doing something similar in the UK to what it did in the US, only delayed by a few years, you may well be on the rising side of this particular wave. And since tomorrow need not be yesterday, who knows but that it will turn out differently this time?

Good, bad or doesn't matter? Well, I don't tend to think in those terms. It's just about what I decide things mean for me in terms of how I'm going to utilise the way things are to help create the way they will be so that the greatest number of people (including me!) can be happy and fulfilled. Up, down, bull, bear and anywhere in between, there's burgeoning opportunities or imminent disaster, depending on how you decide to think about it!

Or so it seems to me!

Great discussion Mark, thanks for the topic!

Be Well,

Michael Perez

[quote=map002;40233]

Good, bad or doesn't matter? Well, I don't tend to think in those terms. It's just about what I decide things mean for me in terms of how I'm going to utilise the way things are to help create the way they will be so that the greatest number of people (including me!) can be happy and fulfilled. Up, down, bull, bear and anywhere in between, there's burgeoning opportunities or imminent disaster, depending on how you decide to think about it!



I really like what you said here Michael! You have more or less summed up my way of thinking.

I work in a very 'corporate' environment where if you were to just mention 'NLP' you would have been carted off by the white coat brigade. I stepped away to concentrate on doing things my way but still retained a small role in the company (I still needed to pay the bills after all). To cut a long story short, I was asked back last year to work with the director to create a coaching culture. I was told that they missed my 'presence' and my style of doing things. I still would not walk around the office in a t shirt saying I LOVE NLP but it is part of how I am and what I do (my presence and my style).


So, if what I do makes a difference to individuals and to the company and if we are successful in creating a culture of people that don't just do but be then it is all worthwhile. The powers that be want to create a coaching style unique to the company but whatever flavours we have introduced they have all been basically NLP techniques in one form or another. I do smile to myself quite often but also feel very proud that NLP is making so much difference and hey ho does it really matter if its termed as being NLP or something else.

Hey I might even wear that T shirt after all!

chris_morris wrote:

There are some pretty good NLP trainers who earn less than £12,000 a year from NLP training. It's a really competitive industry in the UK.

On the other hand, a few really good trainers are out there earning £12,000 per day. Those are typically the ones who evolve ideas and develop new ideas.

To relate it to the IT analogy, I think how much you can earn teaching NLP is largely influenced by whether you are showing people how to use an existing software package, customising and developing extra modules to meet their needs, writing new software to do new things, or writing whole new operating systems to look at the world in whole new ways. The more you can do and the more flexibility you have, the more value you can deliver and the more you're going to get paid.

Hopefully we'll soon start to see more focus on applying NLP to other things too. The current trend for so many people to discover NLP and then give up their job to become either an NLP coach or an NLP trainer is unsustainable. Learning NLP to teach NLP so that more people can learn NLP to teach NLP... I don't think that's really such a great idea. Learning NLP to become a better and more successful doctor, teacher, artist, software designer... whatever... that's where I think the potential lies in the future.

I don't know about the "simple thing that anyone can master",the techniques might be simple,but properly applying them is another thing.
I've noticed that a lot of people seem to disregard stuff like metaprograms,possibly because they find their own map preferable.
As to HR related stuff,I think it's getting a bit much at times,at one housing association I used to work for,we had assessment interviews where all the management did was write down what was said,and send it off to HR to be returned a couple of weeks later,reframed out of all recognition,staff started taking dictaphones and stuff in because they got so sick of this nonsense.

I do wonder if NLP has become as mainstream as it will be able to. This might sound like a silly thing to say but I think that in some quarters it has a very bad reputation. I first came across it when I was learning how to negotiate (my job involved a hell of a lot of negotiating at the time) and the teacher told us that while he liked the basic NLP techniques he really disliked what he called "woolly hug the world thinking" that had started to pollute NLP.
That plus some very poor trainers plus some ridiculous claims about NLP make me think that to some extent it may remain in the shadows. I know quite few people who use it but refuse to call it NLP because they believe there is a stigma attached to it.

Im not saying that I believe that but there are a lot of people out there who acknowledge the effectiveness of some of the techniques and use them daily but stay away from the name.

q

marksherwood wrote:

Thanks for that,

But the NLP i am talking about is the NLP we all know and love. Most of the job specs that mention NLP are HR or Training related.

Maybe we will all look back someday and think fondly of the times when only a few hundred thousand of us knew anything about NLP ?

Cheers,

Mark

Mark,

I think that there may be more and more people knowing about NLP but a lot less who are able to take the knowledge and turn this into action that works, is innovative and advances the field.

Jason

Jason,

I think there are more and more people who know a "little bit" about NLP and, having learned that, have decided it's "a lot". And they are very proud of that fact.

Now, if they were proud of the fact that they had a learned a little bit, I would be proud of them, too...

Venus

Venus,

I think that you are right and as we say in the UK "The proof of the pudding is in the tasting"

I really like the idea of more and more people knowing NLP it means that I have to up my game. I love a challenge and rising to the occasion.

There will always be people who learn a bit and profess to know it all I see it all the time in my business life, it is just human nature.

Jason