Hey everyone,
I've started Persuasion Engineering and I've finished the first 3 Chapters. I can't say its horrible reading, but I just haven't the slightest of clues where on earth this is going.

Also, can anyone suggest some great NLP Sales books.

Greatly Appreciated.
Fadi

It is leading to a change in your approach to selling. I had to read it twice before I fully "got it" but I now believe it is the best book on selling that I have read.

I no longer try to sell anything, I just find out exactly what my customer wants and show them how to get it.

Your approach may be different but there will be a shift.

If you try and analyse it you may find it hard work. Treat it like a novel and you will suddenly realise things that seem to have nothing to do with the book..

Marc hogan did some great NLP persuasion DVDs, you can now watch them online at
marchoganonline.com

I would also read
[ame="http://www.amazon.co.uk/Influence-Psychology-Persuasion-Robert-Cialdini/dp/006124189X/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1241614299&sr=8-1"]Influence: The Psychology of Persuasion: Amazon.co.uk: Robert Cialdini: Books[/ame]

faboualfa wrote:

Hey everyone,
I've started Persuasion Engineering and I've finished the first 3 Chapters. I can't say its horrible reading, but I just haven't the slightest of clues where on earth this is going.

Also, can anyone suggest some great NLP Sales books.

Greatly Appreciated.
Fadi

Stick with it. As Nick says, this book is what sales are all about.

I would suggest you read it a least three times and just let the words go into your eyes without trying to make sense of them.

By the time you have read it five or six times you will be flying.

Does anyone ever listen to Beethoven's 9th just once?

John

One day your life will flash before your eyes, make sure it’s worth watching

Thank you for the responses Nick and John, Greatly appreciated.

I just needed I suppose some reassurance that this is going somewhere. That for letting me know how to get there.

Marc Hogan seems to have some absolutely great stuff on there and I'll most certainly join by the looks of things.

Any other Suggestions / Books.

Thanks Fellas!

I know a lot of educational books teach things in a very explicit, linear, 'small chunk' fashion and that works for some things.

However, when teaching (installing) a skill which basically falls under the category of 'behavioural flexibility', that kind of linear approach doesn't always help so much. Hence educating in this non-linear, big chunk, stories-and-metaphors-and-other-'installed'-experiences kind of way.

So, it may be unfamiliar but I echo Nick and John that it's actually well designed for what it is, and I also agree you probably need to read it two or three times.

Or get the DVD set, which is even better.

Cheers

Some other great sales books are;

[ame="http://www.amazon.co.uk/Greatest-Salesman-World-Og-Mandino/dp/055327757X/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1241621323&sr=8-1"]The Greatest Salesman in the World: Og Mandino: Amazon.co.uk: Books[/ame]

[ame="http://www.amazon.co.uk/Greatest-Salesman-World-Vol-2/dp/0553276999/ref=pd_sim_b_1"]The Greatest Salesman in the World: Vol 2: Og Mandino: Amazon.co.uk: Books[/ame]

[ame="http://www.amazon.co.uk/Who-Dares-Sells-Ultimate-Anything/dp/0722535309/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1241621552&sr=1-1"]Who Dares Sells: Ultimate Guide to Selling Anything to Anyone: Amazon.co.uk: Patrick Ellis: Books[/ame]


and if you are looking to become more persuasive then I would look into:

[ame="http://www.amazon.co.uk/Mind-Lines-Changing-Michael-L-Hall/dp/1890001155/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1241621675&sr=1-1"]Mind-Lines: Lines for Changing Minds: Amazon.co.uk: Michael L. Hall, Bob G. Bodenhomer: Books[/ame]


and also Igor Ledochowski Learn Hypnosis - Hypnosis Training Foundations - Hypnosis Book + Cds/Dvds + Tapes + MP3s

faboualfa wrote:

Also, can anyone suggest some great NLP Sales books.

I'll add to the others' my own recommendation to keep going and will suggest taking the live training when you get the opportunity.

To the list of recommended books I will add Unlimited Selling Power: How to Master Hypnotic Selling Skills by Donald Moine and Kenneth Lloyd, [ame="http://www.amazon.com/Unlimited-Selling-Power-Master-Hypnotic/dp/0136891268/"]amazon link[/ame]

Thanks for all the recommendations guys. In my shopping basket as we speak! :-) (Except for Mind Lines which I already have but haven't opened)

Stephen

re:"However, when teaching (installing) a skill which basically falls under the category of 'behavioural flexibility', that kind of linear approach doesn't always help so much. Hence educating in this non-linear, big chunk, stories-and-metaphors-and-other-'installed'-experiences kind of way."

now this comment surprises me coming from a very well established NLP connection "regular" such as you Stephen

no book will install a skill. it just won't happen. linear text is linear text. I've owned PE the book for years, and have gone back and read it a couple of times. there is no recursive biofeedback loop, no chance for anchoring, no rapport to be had with a book. you only get that with a live trainer(read: person)

alright...... enough of my "rant"

As a phenomenal salesman, I can say, I've read PE several times and I cannot say that it helped me at all.

I'll crawl back into the hole from whence I came.

Jim,

I was merely explaining why (I think) the book is written in the style it is, as opposed to the traditional text book style like:

1. Skill 1.
1.1 Step 1
1.2 Step 2
etc

And my explanation is valid. Persuasion Engineering isn't a skill that's best learned by listing sequential steps. Bandler and La Valle teach it (as they teach NLP) in a non-linear, big-chunk way, using stories and metaphors to help you build big-chunk programs in your head, and a compass so you can find your way.

And my point was: since they teach it that way, they write the book that way.

Now, I agree that a book is a one-way device in which there is no feedback loop, anchoring, etc. I also agree that books don't install. (Back to that in a minute.) But you can learn things from books. And I don't see why this big chunk style of presentation would work only in a live training and not in a book.

Now, your principal objection is that a book doesn't do installation. Fair enough and I agree. If you read carefully, you'll notice I never actually said the book does installation, though I can see why you might think that. When I was talking about installation, I was referring to when you teach [i.e. live]. My intended flow was: when you teach, the linear, stepwise approach doesn't work so well. Hence why the book educates in this big-chunk, non-linear way. (Remember the book reads as it would be presented. It might even be an edited transcript.)

Forgive me if the way I constructed it suggested books do installation. That wasn't my intent.

Cheers

Steve_W wrote:

(Remember the book reads as it would be presented. It might even be an edited transcript.)

Comments on the way the book was 'written' seem to crop up time and again whenever PE is discussed. My understanding is that it was not so much written as transcribed from a number of the PE seminars, hence the style.

faboualfa wrote:

Hey everyone,
I've started Persuasion Engineering and I've finished the first 3 Chapters. I can't say its horrible reading, but I just haven't the slightest of clues where on earth this is going.

Hey how're you doing?

You know that's kinda the point (to me anyway)

If you 'knew where it was going' then the information would probably already be in that I know this place...

...so I recommend being 'OK' with not knowing where it's going.

You never know what you may notice.

J.

gstandard wrote:

Stephen

re:"However, when teaching (installing) a skill which basically falls under the category of 'behavioural flexibility', that kind of linear approach doesn't always help so much. Hence educating in this non-linear, big chunk, stories-and-metaphors-and-other-'installed'-experiences kind of way."

now this comment surprises me coming from a very well established NLP connection "regular" such as you Stephen

no book will install a skill. it just won't happen. linear text is linear text. I've owned PE the book for years, and have gone back and read it a couple of times. there is no recursive biofeedback loop, no chance for anchoring, no rapport to be had with a book. you only get that with a live trainer(read: person)

alright...... enough of my "rant"

I second the opinion. And, I have to add, I was downright appalled when I read this book . . . it is practically drivel. I forced my way through it in the hopes there was something of value. I feel downright heretical because Bandler is a genius, but this one left me with buyer's remorse!

mindopoly wrote:

I was downright appalled when I read this book . . . it is practically drivel. I forced my way through it in the hopes there was something of value. I feel downright heretical because Bandler is a genius, but this one left me with buyer's remorse!

It may be that Persuasion Engineering is one of those "you had to be there" things for many people. I've attended it three times and appreciated it each time. (It gets better with every iteration, apparently.)

Transcribed seminars are not really books.

ok...So...I felt that i didnt get my money's worth so i downloaded an audio cd of the seminar lurking around the net. and started to listen to it. haven't gotten too far...but along side with the book........its bloody excellent......

of and i also started Marc Hogan Course...That's also great. I anchored my self for the first time....and it was a happy thought between my thumb and my finger...and now every time I hold a pick to play guitar i start giggling....: :p

I have sooo much to study....

I wasn't aware that an audio of P.E. had been published. (I know there's a DVD.) Where did you get it from?

Cheers

[Link removed]

Please don't post links to illegal download sites.

My apologies.