Hi everyone,

I'm new to the community so sorry in advance if this is not an ok question but I wonder what you all think about Derren Brown and especially his most recent work? I'm new to NLP and when I tell people I know about this new interest they always mention the trick or treat series on C4 and they think I'm going to steal their soul or lock them in a box! I'm finding it a bit of an uphill battle to explain that NLP isn't about mind games and stealing. Have any of you had this too and how did you deal with it?

Sam

Hi Sam,

I have experienced a similar reaction from some of my friends. How many times have I now heard the 3 - 2 -1 you are back in the room joke from Little Britain!

I don't have a magic answer but I have found it generally better when I just talk about things that could benefit them rather than any of the theory behind NLP.

Am new to this NLP and as I understand it they conveniently don't show any of the hypnotic inductions - guess it gives it more impact.

Would be great to see something showing the benefits of NLP/ Hypnosis in a more normal way as it only tends to feature at the extremes - some court case or surgery where they have hypnotised somebody instead. All this adds to creating a mystique around it all I guess.

Tim

OK, I'd like to come right to the point.

Having amassed millions of pounds of stolen goods and having gotten quite good at playing Monopoly entirely in my brain (Two hotels in my pineal glad, please!), I am both shocked and distressed to hear anyone impugning these two core skills by suggesting that they are not the very essence of NLP.

In the future, I suggest you consider your words more carefully, or those of us who do real NLP will steal your soul, pop you into a fake photobooth and have you shipped to Abu Dabi as per the 'Six Step Deportation' technique.

Sorry, couldn't resist. I'll have to get some changework done for that compulsion...

One interesting reframe might be to ask people if they think being a doctor is like they see it on ER or if police detectives really act like Columbo (or Life on Mars, for that matter)?

Sometimes, that's just enough of a reframe to get people thinking differently. Or if that sounds like too much work, just convert them to soulless zombies in the service of our somewhat short but dreaded Dark Lord Derren and be done with it...

Be Well,

Michael Perez

Only just about every day Sam.

Even so, think about this; what do their beliefs about soul stealing and box locking presuppose?

Among other things, they presuppose:

1. That you have tremendous power to influence them.
2. That you can use this power to steal their soul or lock them in a box.
3. That there is a high enough chance you will do this that they should worry about it.

Personally, I think that leaving them with presupposition number 1 intact is quite useful. You can even least most of presupposition number 2 intact. It's just presupposition number 3 you want to work on.

That can be done in many ways. There's the 'why would I want to lock you in a box?' argument. There's the 'if you had my powers, would you lock people in boxes?' argument.

Then of course there's the fact that Derren uses volunteers, people who, in essence, desire to be locked in boxes. As I'm sure he would tell you, it works much less well with people who do not wish to be locked in boxes. Consider for example his elaborate selection procedure for Russian Roulette, and this from his website on channel4.com for Trick of the Mind.

"All through the series, people mysteriously fall asleep in public phone boxes. Have they fallen prey to a disease or am I carrying out some trick of the mind on the other end of the line? There are two factors at work here.

First, the group of people subjected to the stunt are particularly suggestible. I know this simply because they chose to answer a public phone that happened to be ringing as they walked past. Most people would ignore it, assuming it was nothing to do with them."

Emphasis mine.

So don't do too much to allay their fears - a little judicious reassurance can turn it into excitement and expectancy, which can be helpful.

Cheers,

Phil

I am really curious about your experiences.......

Did Derren Brown mention NLP in the 'trick and treat' series that Sam references?

I watched one programme and heard no reference of NLP?

Michael

I have seen the ones shown so far and have not heard a reference to NLP in them either...

Six Step Deportation.. love it hehehe

Hi Sam,

Same here, on the other side of the channel. We have an equivalent of mr. Brown, Emile Ratelband. A very active person who likes to have people walk on burning coals and yells "Tchakka!" a lot.

I don't think he mentioned NLP much, but the few times he did in interviews seem to stick enough in the public mind to have dragged the field to the level of voodoo and pshycho-fads.

Phil's suggestions might do the trick - just enough of a reframe to make us from dark wizards into Cinderella's fairy godmother. Go forth and change frames

I stopped stealing souls after Ebay banned their sale. Not much market for them now.

I know a Mr S.A.Tan who does buy the occasional soul but he doesn't usually deal in cash. I can play you a nice version of "crossroads" though.

The Man himself Derren Brown is a Master Showman,

NLP has hardly anything to do with what he actually does, originally Brown was a Stage Hypnotist similar in style to myself as follows on this video clip:

[ame="http://video.google.co.uk/videoplay?docid=-189281581587107333"]http://video.google.co.uk/videoplay?docid=-189281581587107333[/ame] (Thats The Late Dr. Royles Showreel for shows!)

But then he moved into Magic and Mentalism which is all trickery, however when presented in a certain manner with NLPish sounding words any do come to believe that it was down to hypnosis or NLP when in fact it was not rather like me in this clip from C5's "The Gadget Show!"

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A54I9XTbskU"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A54I9XTbskU[/ame] - (Royle Gaining Secret Passwords Under Hypnosis On TV's gadget Show)

The truth is that the majority of the routines Derren has done on stage and TV whic NLP Practitioners seem to think rely on NLP avtually don't and vice versa..

In fact I explain in great detail how Derren does many so called "hypno-tricks" in my book which I AM GIVING AWAY FREE AT THIS LINK..

http://www.hypnotherapycourse.net and then download your book for FREE!

The fact is NLP plays very little part in anything Derren does other than as a presentational aid...

I can tell you this with all confidence, as indirectly I have acted as an advisor to shows produced by The TV company which makes Derren's shows and in fact on many occasions they have used material explained on my DVDS word for word and action for action and I can tell you the stuf they did use RELIED ON TRICKERY and yet looked like Hypnosis and NLP...

Methinks you protest too much. SOME of DB's tricks absolutely rely on NLP. Check out last week's 'Trick or Treat' show when he very clearly used anchoring of certainty and uncertainty to persuade a woman that yellow was in fact red, with the result that she couldn't find her red car because red now appeared to her as black...

adrian r wrote:

Methinks you protest too much. SOME of DB's tricks absolutely rely on NLP. Check out last week's 'Trick or Treat' show when he very clearly used anchoring of certainty and uncertainty to persuade a woman that yellow was in fact red, with the result that she couldn't find her red car because red now appeared to her as black...

Yes that was fascinating to watch.

As for his views on NLP - I've not read the bestseller but in his other published works, available through his website, he is fairly critical of NLP suggesting that much of it is actually taken from older techniques, and that NLP has developed an almost cultish following that he finds quite creepy.

I am paraphrasing of course...!

Matt Hat wrote:

Yes that was fascinating to watch.

As for his views on NLP - I've not read the bestseller but in his other published works, available through his website, he is fairly critical of NLP suggesting that much of it is actually taken from older techniques, and that NLP has developed an almost cultish following that he finds quite creepy.

I am paraphrasing of course...!

That'll be modelling then, isn't it?

His current series is much harsher than previous ones. Did you see the episode where he went into someone's house at night and got them to sign a contract in the dark? "Don't bother reading this, it just says we can do whatever we want to you."

mike_wallis wrote:

His current series is much harsher than previous ones. Did you see the episode where he went into someone's house at night and got them to sign a contract in the dark? "Don't bother reading this, it just says we can do whatever we want to you."

Yes I thought that was harsh... but half as harsh as the bloke harrassed by people calling him dummy and then leaving him on his own in a scary abandoned music hall!

mike_wallis wrote:

His current series is much harsher than previous ones. Did you see the episode where he went into someone's house at night and got them to sign a contract in the dark? "Don't bother reading this, it just says we can do whatever we want to you."

That's one of the things I was thinking of in particular. Doesn't it make hypnotists look shady?

samson wrote:

That's one of the things I was thinking of in particular. Doesn't it make hypnotists look shady?

Only in strong sunlight and when under a parasol

Do you think it does? I think it makes them look cool, shade..... parasol...... oh never mind

I think it looks like we can take advantage of people with these skills

samson wrote:

I think it looks like we can take advantage of people with these skills

That's what stage hypnotists 'appear' to have been doing for years, and if I'm not mistaken that is one of the reasons why Paul McKenna doesn't do hypnosis tv shows anymore.

I'm not so sure it does, maybe some, but certainly not all.

Stephen

Stephen Salmon wrote:

That's what stage hypnotists 'appear' to have been doing for years, and if I'm not mistaken that is one of the reasons why Paul McKenna doesn't do hypnosis tv shows anymore.

I'm not so sure it does, maybe some, but certainly not all.

Stephen

It is a good way to get rid of annoying people at parties

"What do you do?"

"I hypnotise people"

"Oh, like Derren Brown?"

"Yes, except I don't have to be nice because I'm not on telly"

"Er, excuse me I have a phone call to make"

:cool:

Matt Hat wrote:

It is a good way to get rid of annoying people at parties

"What do you do?"

"I hypnotise people"

"Oh, like Derren Brown?"

"Yes, except I don't have to be nice because I'm not on telly"

"Er, excuse me I have a phone call to make"

:cool:

Nice, the Derren Brown pattern interupt, I'll use that one and trademark it