Having spoken to a good few people who have experienced NLP my impression of NLP is a good one, BUT. I have a personal prejudice against the practice setting aside bandlers involvement with what I understand to be the murder of a prostitute, drug dealing and some clandestine CIA involvement all of which information I have seen on the internet. I guess we all know how credible that information may be.

I have personal experience of a so called NLP Master who runs a school in the south of England with his wife and they both have some serious moral short comings. In trying not to be too judgmental I will only tell you of what I know in that they both abuse alcohol and hard line drugs and indulge in group sex acts with other family members amongst others. They are cowardly, greedy and I can tell you that from my understanding of the situation learned NLP at what was his own sisters NLP school which she had worked very hard at building up only to take it from her when she entrusted the management of the school to them whilst she went on a long holiday. They apparently took most of her regular clients with them leaving her with nothing. This is only the tip of the iceberg as there are many other money grabbing issues such as profiteering from his own Mothers funeral. I do not wish to expand any further on this description of these two as I have no desire to reveal their identities or attack them personally. I simply want to paint the picture as I know it to demonstrate my skepticism.

My point is that from what I have witnessed outside of these two people other NLP practitioners and clients seem to be of high moral standing with ethics and with integrity. My question is simple. Does NLP
conform and propagate an ethical and high degree of morality amongst its practitioners and moreover their teachers or is it simply a money making scheme of learning to manipulate other unsuspecting peoples minds to control outcomes for the NLP practitioners own benefit? I ask this because it would fall into the mold of the people I have described earlier, perfectly.

I am not one of their victims but am trying to clarify for myself if I were to involve myself in NLP are these the type of people I would encounter and is this what NLP stands for.

...and you say your impression of NLP is a good one?

yawn

For what it is worth here is my opinion. People usually have their morality installed long before they formaly encounter NLP as a learned skill. There are people in all walks of life who abuse their learning and position.

Gossip.

Margret
Thank you for your valued opinion. It makes sense and is the first worthwhile response I have received. I suppose the student must evaluate the teacher on his/her own merits.

Thanks again for being civil. A rare comodity on the Internet.

I read somewhere Hitler was a dog lover........

Gordon,

An interesting post.

We may not all be as good and honourable as Catholic Priests, ohh, hang on, not as good as...politicians.... oh no, well how do you complete that sentence?

There are good and bad in every profession and every hobby, I am sure you will even find some arrogant sods in Amnesty International if you cared to look.

I can vividly remember a moment during my NLP Practitioner training when one of the instructors, Michael Neill, had been working with quite a large group of people who had a phobia of speaking in front of large groups of people. The time had come for them to test their new abilities and one by one these peolpe stood on a stage and sang while some just spoke out how they were feeling in front of about 500 other people. It was very emotional and a very moving moment, seeing years of parental ridicule and negative associations made during school life lifted in a matter of minutes. Then, in the corner of my eye I saw a lady sat playing a game on her phone and ignoring all what was going on around her. It was then I thought to myself that taking an NLP course does not instantly make you anything more than you want to be. If you are a rat bag then I guess NLP could make you a bigger and better rat bag! It may change what you want to become but ultimatly you can use its capabilities to do as you please.

When I have heard other people question NLP and its morality, a great reply is...

just because some people use bricks to smash windows and throw at people, does that mean all brick are bad and that we should ban all bricks?

I use NLP to control kids who are out of control, motivate children to sit, study and learn. I give children with no attention span an ability to pay attention. I recently met a midwife who was learning about NLP so she can help her patients manage their physical and mental state better. For many of us, learning about NLP brings no pay rise, it just makes me happy to help other people achieve their goals.

I dont make any more money but I do make alot more of a difference.

Any help?

Matt

Matt
Thank you for a very comprehensive reply. Your comments are reflected in the variance of intillect and thought that has gone into some previous responses.

Please excuse the brevity of my response but I found what you said very helpful indeed. Should I persue NLP I will be sure to bear in mind your comments and may contact you for further advice if I may.

Thank you for your civility. It sets you way apart from some of the other mindless responses I have had.

All the best.

Gordon

Hello Gordon

I agree with some of the responses here that you shouldn't judge a whole group based upon the behaviour of the few. Though I have come across some reports of very unethical activities of NLPers and NLP authors:

Ethical Concerns
Neurolinguistic Programming - a knol by Joe Greenfield

And even if it is more than a just a few, with a reasonably skeptical questioning attitude it is still important to assess NLP based upon whether the group can deliver on the claims. According to independent published reviews, the claims have failed:

Empirical Testing
Neurolinguistic Programming - a knol by Joe Greenfield

But you still may find neurolinguistic programing an interesting subject if you are interested in studying the nature of pseudoscience and self-deception, rather than learning how to practice or get certified in pseudoscience:

The nature of pseudoscience
Neurolinguistic Programming - a knol by Joe Greenfield

Cognitive bias
Neurolinguistic Programming - a knol by Joe Greenfield

David
Thank you for you informative reply. I will check out the links you attached. Once again I appreciate your civil response which as I have said before is a rarity on Internet forums.

Kind regards

Gordon

David
Thank you for you informative reply. I will check out the links you attached. Once again I appreciate your civil response which as I have said before is a rarity on Internet forums.

Kind regards

Gordon

To the Gorgon and David

Please note David provides one author not authors as stated in his text

...and as for my earlier yawn it related to the work of trolls Yawn, yes yawn, repetitive nonsense always make me yawn.

You see there are so many excellent posts on this forum which demonstrate how much kind and good work is made through using NLP techniques I wondered that there was another reason for your rather droll question.

So I'm off to do something useful and kind with my time - like help a lady who had serious head injuries recover from the fear she now suffers. I will be using NLP techniques.

No time to waste on feeding the trolls.....

Carol

Look again:

Neurolinguistic Programming - a knol by Joe Greenfield

I count at least 43 independent authors in the references section there, who have the view that neurolinguistic programing failed controled testing, or is as pseudoscientific as it sounds.

It is easy to verify most of it. Just do google book and google scholar searches.

I find it fascinating how you turn to the troll or sockpuppet insinuation as soon as you have run out of excuses for NLP's failure. Its not just you, of course. Its happening here a lot, and it seems to be a notable characteristic of pseudoscientific behaviour in general.

David,

You have posted the same links into half a dozen threads now and everytime you claim they are reliable and produce something factual and everytime your nonsence claims are torn apart and laughed at. Repeating something does not make it more true.

If something does not work the first time, the second time, third, fourth, fith time, maybe try something new.

I even set you up your own thread just for you to come up with some proof that your claims have any backbone and you failed, your claims have failed.

Surely it is time to move on.

Good point, Matt. I just said that to David in a private message too.

It's fine to discuss the scientific or unscientific validity of NLP in threads about that topic. Disrupting other topics isn't on.

Ok Gordon

Actually you probably don't need to check up on scientific validity in this context.

Just stick to judging the behavior of the proponents.

skeptic wrote:

Having spoken to a good few people who have experienced NLP my impression of NLP is a good one, BUT. I have a personal prejudice against the practice setting aside bandlers involvement with what I understand to be the murder of a prostitute, drug dealing and some clandestine CIA involvement all of which information I have seen on the internet. I guess we all know how credible that information may be.

I have personal experience of a so called NLP Master who runs a school in the south of England with his wife and they both have some serious moral short comings. In trying not to be too judgmental I will only tell you of what I know in that they both abuse alcohol and hard line drugs and indulge in group sex acts with other family members amongst others. They are cowardly, greedy and I can tell you that from my understanding of the situation learned NLP at what was his own sisters NLP school which she had worked very hard at building up only to take it from her when she entrusted the management of the school to them whilst she went on a long holiday. They apparently took most of her regular clients with them leaving her with nothing. This is only the tip of the iceberg as there are many other money grabbing issues such as profiteering from his own Mothers funeral. I do not wish to expand any further on this description of these two as I have no desire to reveal their identities or attack them personally. I simply want to paint the picture as I know it to demonstrate my skepticism.

My point is that from what I have witnessed outside of these two people other NLP practitioners and clients seem to be of high moral standing with ethics and with integrity. My question is simple. Does NLP
conform and propagate an ethical and high degree of morality amongst its practitioners and moreover their teachers or is it simply a money making scheme of learning to manipulate other unsuspecting peoples minds to control outcomes for the NLP practitioners own benefit? I ask this because it would fall into the mold of the people I have described earlier, perfectly.

I am not one of their victims but am trying to clarify for myself if I were to involve myself in NLP are these the type of people I would encounter and is this what NLP stands for.

Gordon,

Thanks for the post and the question. In ANY walk of life you will find good and bad people. We see stories in the paper of corrupt policemen (one recently where a police officer conned his peers out of money).

There are examples of other organisations with morals and ethical codes of practice that have also been broken. I was involved in a case a number of years ago as a professional witness for a case of a counsellor who abused his position and slept with a vulnerable client.

So I guess that you shoudl be asking yourself is NLP inherently corrupt or just maybe that some people are bad apples no matter what line of business there are in.

I personally do think that not just the NLP therapy community but the whole complementary/alternative therapy body of practices need a governing body(ies) that firstly have a defined code of practice and ethics, you are compelled to be a member of or dont practice and also power of enforcement for breaches of ethical codes of practice. This is unfortunately somthing that is lacking in almost all of the alternative or complementary theraputic environments.

I have met NLPers who I consider to be of good repute and some I wouldn't touch with a barge pole I just hope that in your own experiences you do not tar us all with the same brush.

Cheers,

Jason

Welcome Gordon.

The question should be, how ethically do you plan to use NLP? There will always be people who abuse whatever they can abuse. This is more reflective of the individuals character, not the techniques which they use.

I would recommend learning from a reputable trainer and get some feedback from some of their previous students before hand as there are plenty of good and plenty of bad trainers out there.

BTW should David really be allowed to try and scare off newcomers? I think it is time he was shown the door. Or at least some restrictions put on where he can post.

Take a look around the forum Gordon. That will give you a better feel. The posts are reflective of people's attitudes. One thing I can say is no one here would be allowed to use someones sensitive situation to further their own beliefs on a topic and "get them on side". Or maybe they are because i'm ashamed to say due to this inappropriate hijacking of introducing yourself that David has done this and is a member

You are obviously ofay with forums and their tone so allow yourself to make your own judgement. What we call an informed decision with no accusation of convincing from anyone. Enjoy :-)