This is Not How It Was Supposed to Be...

Let's imagine that there is a man, a 32-year old man. He was born a Gemini and there seems to exist within him two people. He keeps trying and trying to make of his life what he wants, but there is something inside him that continues to sabotage him. To cause him to make mistakes, offend people, do things that interfere with his success. There is a part of him that is full of love and wants to be good and do good, yet he has trouble controlling the demonic portion of his soul that prevents him from acheiving success and being happy. What can we do to help this man?

Hi Tony,

What positive intention is there behind the demonic part of his soul?

Violeta

Violeta,
I don't believe there is. He is a troubled man. He is torn. Part of him wants him to kill himself, it tells him he is no good, that he is nothing. The other part of him wants to be rich, and handsome, and successful, and, most of all, happy.

Hi Tony,

Part of him wants him to kill himself, if he really is serious about this, this is serious and is out of my league. I would advice him to get professional medical advice!

Violeta

Not serious enough to the point where he actually would, no. He's not suicidal, it's just that part of him that brings him down, tells him he's no good, tells him he should never have been born, because his life will always be this way.

Hi Tony,

I'm starting to get the picture!

I would suggest that you find out if there are any time periods or a particular voice ( Is it his voice) that tells him he's no good, find out what triggers this no good attitude and then find out when he's feeling good, how he feels.

You could explore submodalities and try the six step re-frame. You could also teach him the little trick that quietens internal negative dialogue, that is tell to touch the roof of his mouth with his tongue this stops internal dialogue!

Hope this is helpful!

Violeta

P.S remind him that his life will always be this way unless he is prepared to accept the possibility that it doesn't have to be that the same way he has chosen to see you about his concern he can start turning the wheels of change! Climb one step at a time and before you know it you have reached the top of the Empire State Building!

the internal dialogue is not necessarily the problem. it's the force inside him that holds him back. he can't find it, he can't stop it, he can't experience what he wants.

Core transformation may help with this.

He wants to supress it. He needs to control it. Otherwise, he will never be truly happy. And this is unfortunate, because he has a huge heart.

Let's imagine that there is a man, a 32-year old man. He was born a Gemini and there seems to exist within him two people.

One of the most important steps you might take is to help him believe that, no matter how it might seem, there are not two people existing within him. He may feel conflicted, but he is entirely one. Help him to realize that this is something he is doing, and not something that is happening to him.

Note, too, that he's doing this without conscious awareness. I think it matters. My idea is that unconscious communication while awake is no different from that while asleep; the unconscious speaks in symbol and metaphor and should not be interpreted literally.

Ordinarily, I would not impose an interpretation on someone else's symbol, but in cases where someone is experiencing unbidden thoughts of suicide, I happily intervene.

A common interpretation of a dream or myth-story of death is "change". Suicide, then, is a symbol the insistence that one change oneself somehow. If you realize that all you have to do to end your current life is to start living a different one, you'll understand that literal suicide is actually the least likely of thousands of available options.

So there's nothing evil about this aspect of him. It's doing something outrageous to get his attention. It's just time to acknowledge it, assume a positive intent, and keep asking questions until you get an answer that works.

I have two questions now. There are two data points you brought up and which do not fit with the story as you told it. I've been taught to pay special attention to those, as they often contain valuable information.

What does "Gemini" or astrology have to do with this?

What does his age (32) have to do with this?

He wants to supress it. He needs to control it. Otherwise, he will never be truly happy. And this is unfortunate, because he has a huge heart.

That sounds crazy to me as it presupposes a struggle is necessary. So you are saying he needs an internal conflict to be truly happy. Doesn't sound much like happiness to me, more like a bind.

Why did you start with "Let's imagine there is a man.."? I'm confused.. is this a real or hypothetical situation? If hypothetical, why so specific about 32 years old? What are you really trying to work out here?

Tony

Here a very quick way to deal with this- yet before I do my thing, I need to make a statement..

What I am about to write does not mean to be offensive- yet will come across as being so- I do this from a place of kindness and a Deep Love of human beings- and from a place of respect...

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GROW THE FUCK UP AND STOP MAKING EXCUSES!!


This is based on the "STOP IT!!" model of change- yet get something straight- there is only one of you in side of you- what you have going on is a set of conflicting choices and thats all, your not exercising the function of right choice & action- so you are fighting with what we call "self-conflicted self-contained bullshit" get over it!

Yes I could be nice and kind and jump on the empathy band wagon- yet fuck that! you need to be told to grow the fuck up- and take the right action- what is that? that stop bitching about some half baked idea that some technique is going to make a difference- what you need to do is get angry enough stop making excuses!! and be who are are- which is the guy you look at in the mirror- the life force that has no limitations- the guy if he said "yes he can" he would- and you know you have said many times- and you know you have also said NO when you have needed too, So what limited beliefs would you like to say yes to? and as you think about the beliefs that would allow you to grow- think of one time when you have said yes- and either at a level of consciousness or at a level of unconsciousness place that new belief in the same place as were the yes is and stamp your foot and in a clear deep inner powerful voice say yes- and do that 3 time- then brake for a moment or so- and repeat one make the stamp of the foot more powerful as it you mean it with your whole heart-

Now I know you have had to say NO! at times in your life and being able to say NO! is a very important skill, So think of a time when you have said NO and really meant it- and notice were that is in your awareness- and either at and conscious or unconscious level think of a limiting belief that you want to say good by too! and using the other foot think of the time you said NO! and Meant it and he limiting Belief and place the Belief in the same place as the NO and at the same time stamp your Foot like you mean it and say NO and repeat this 3 times-

Then Take a brake..

Now practice this Yesing and Noing with what you do and not want and after a little time- you will train your brain in what you want and don't want!!

Get on with it!!


J

One of the most important steps you might take is to help him believe that, no matter how it might seem, there are not two people existing within him. He may feel conflicted, but he is entirely one. Help him to realize that this is something he is doing, and not something that is happening to him.

A good friend said this to me not long ago. I had a hard time hearing it.

Thank you, Michael, for saying it again, and Tony, listen to him.

Phil

Tony

Here a very quick way to deal with this- yet before I do my thing, I need to make a statement..

What I am about to write does not mean to be offensive- yet will come across as being so- I do this from a place of kindness and a Deep Love of human beings- and from a place of respect...

.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
GROW THE FUCK UP AND STOP MAKING EXCUSES!!

I guess nobody every accused you of being compassionate. Your contribution here is no longer welcome.

Gemini is significant because it is symbolic. Thirty-two is his age. This is a real man, not hypthetical.

There is a part of him that he wishes dead. He is idealistic. He is a dreamer. He believed that by this point in his life things would be much different, much better than they are. This "thing" is something he has struggled with for a long time and he doesn't know how to kill it. It would be a good thing for that part of him to commit suicide, to die, because then it wouldn't interfere with him. He would be able to reach the goals he has set for himself and attain that which he desires to attain. The two cannot live together. One must go, and he prefers that the bad part goes. It prevents him from holding a job, from being successful with other people and in life, from having positive relationships with others, etc.

Tony,

I feel for your friend, I shared very similar qualities that you describe for my whole life yet whilst some times were low and the future looked up hill and very difficult I can promise you that your life is not yet marked out for you and that you can do anything you focus on. For me I had a catalyst to facilitate my change, I am not sure what will work for you but as the variety of advice in the posts above demonstrate, the method for you to move on from this can come from any direction. My catalyst was the moment I met an amazing girl (now my wife) and it took me quite a while to learn to accept her genuine love. I knew I had to up my game and exactly like Jay said above, there were times when I wanted to use my coping strategies of complaining and pushing her away and then make her prove her love to me by accepting the blame for the argument I caused and then have her chase me again. What a cock I was and I soon realised that I had to think before I spoke and when I felt like complaining I simply had to learn to express myself in better ways and become the person who could enjoy life rather than resent it. As a young man I had so many habits that made me, the 27 year old, look like a 19 year old, nobody have ever challenged me to snap out of them. In a few words above you mentioned about wanting to commit suicide and then said that you dont want to. I believe that you dont want to so why say it? It is that kind of stuff that you need to recognise and start to move away from saying. I am guessing you say things like that for the response you get, in Violetas case she gave you no attention for it at all which made you retract it. Which I believe supports Jays comment, stop being a cock and using those kind of tactics, they only feed the demons!

Remember how long ago you were 25? It seems like a long time ago doesnt it? in the same period of time you will be 39 and that five year period can put you in whatever situation you want to be. In that time you can make huge strides up any career ladder and form relationships with good people who will support and care for you and enhance your life in ways that you are currently unable to imagine.

I belive there is a positive intention to any bad behaviour and that is no different to you (or your hypothetical person- whatever!). Rather than navigate through the negativity it brings and disecting the issues, how about just thinking about who you want to be. Forget your past ambitions as you are not the same person you were who made them and time has moved on. Start fresh and be the person you want to be. When these other voices come in your head remember it is not in yuor best interest to listen and certainly not to follow their advice, you can choose to act on its advice or not, whether you do will be a sign of how motivated you are to move on.

I have 1 question for you and please do come back with and answer.

If you never listened to the 'demonic portion' of you, what would you NOT achieve?

Thanks,

Matt

Turn the light at the end of the tunnel up so bright that you cannot see what is there, you just know that you want to get there and find out.

PS, you have just told one of the most talented people on this site to stop giving you advice, just because you don't like the advice, that does not mean it is not good advice. It is worth remembering that the way you currently think has casued your problems and your current ability has no way of dealing with them, only doing something new can help you.

YOU LET IT prevent you from holding a job, from being successful with other people and in life, from having positive relationships with others, etc

Matt,
Thank you for that extremely insightful post. First of all, let me clarify the "suicide" aspect of things. I am not, have never been, and will never be suicidal. I would much rather wallow in my misery than go out like that.
As concerns the "demonic voice." It's not so much of an actual voice as it is limiting beliefs. What would I achieve if it hadn't been for those beliefs? Well, I would not have married my ex-wife and wasted those three years. I would have become something more than what I am. I would have nice things and, most of all, I would not have hurt those closest to me over the years and become the burden on my friends and family that I now am.

Tony,

What I am hoping to get from you is that you hold on to this negative aspect for a reason. What positive things do this behaviour being to your life?

Maybe it stops you from facing up to apologising to the peolpe you hurt and accepting you part in your troubles. By switching on the demons you can put on the persona of a person who does not give a shit and it protects you from future hurt?

That is all a silly guess but I hope demonstrates why someone would continue to keep that asset in their life.

I guess nobody every accused you of being compassionate. Your contribution here is no longer welcome.

One loses a lot of important information when not communicating face-to-face.

Gemini is significant because it is symbolic. Thirty-two is his age. This is a real man, not hypthetical.

I thought as much, but wanted to make sure. I gathered that you were talking about a real guy, and a particular one.

There is a part of him that he wishes dead. He is idealistic. He is a dreamer. He believed that by this point in his life things would be much different, much better than they are.

One evening I was in the ER by the door and an ambulance rolled in with an old man on the stretcher. The patient was a dementia victim, and he and the EMT were struggling hard. I almost chuckled because I knew what was wrong. I kept a straight face, though, and said to the EMT,

"Let go and back up."

The EMT objected. "But he's fighting!" I just said it again.

"I know. Let go and back up."

EMT gave me the it's-your-funeral look, let go, and backed up.

Patient struggled for another second, realized there was no longer anything to push against, laid back, and relaxed.

EMT then gave me a look that said, "fucker."

Matt,
I truly cannot see a positive to having this "part." It only holds me back and sabotages me.

Tony



You really don't know me or were I am coming from- and my reply was not to be disrespectful or unkind- when dealing with real humans with real issues, you have to cut through a lot of crap-and get right down to whats going on- with this being a forum- I take full 100% responsibility for my words- and the response they evoked- and as unwelcome as you may find my reply and or contribution- I did this to evoke a specific response- sometimes we have to stop beating about the bush- and to take things very seriously - if the person has all this going going on then a forum is not the place to be doing this-this needs to be dealt with in a very direct way- yes I could adopt the being more soft- yet this not what's needed in this case and yes that is a huge assumption on my part- sometimes you need to hear what you don't what to hear- and my reply was about having the person in question take responsibility for him self- and nothing more- you might not like my reply yet it cut right through the bullshit- and that whats needed sometimes-

If your going to post on a public forum- you are going to get all kinds of replies some that you like and others you don't- in this case I made the choice to be very direct- as that was a needed to cut through the language you are using- which I would class as "toxic"


You will never know just how compassionate I am- yet I will very get confused between the idea of compassion and empathy- which are two very different thing's.


I hope the guy finds peace!


J