i just found this and only looked at a few pages

http://www.pennypresslv.com/Obama's_...s_Speeches.pdf

oops, just saw the link was posted in the skeptics dictionary thread

How outrgeous and stupid this document is. I have to question peoples moral values who wrote this garbage and those who are promoting this on threads such as this. What an insult to the great practioners within the nlp world, you should be ashamed to post this in a thread that suggests nlp was used to manipulate the mass of people all over the world. This stupid train of thought that NLP is the answer to explain everythying is so pathetic i can hardly believe it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

If people buy into this i truly feel sorry for them. If they do they simply cannot see nlp for what it is.

If people, who are so far on the right, don't like Obama then they are entitled to have any negative opinion of the man. But for somebody to write this garbage and others to promote this is simply outrageous.

I challenege anybody to a debate who thinks that this document is for real.

I thought Obama was elected because of his proposed policies, well syaing that was missed you fool!

The document is full of paded words and theory that it doesnt even relate to what is proposed.

I went into my local shop today and the man who owns and runs the shop was wearing a shiny silver watch, he asked if i was interested in buying a discounted bottle of wine, i ask you, do you think he was trying to manipulate me with his silver watch.......................... guess what i didn't buy that bottle of wine, sorry to disapoint you.

Stephen

Stephen,

I share your concern and was equally shocked when I read it. Sure it is always nice to read about applied NLP and it did not take me too long to come to some of my own conclusions about the resulting piece of work. To understand the NLP content I suspect the reader will be clever enough to see the attempted manipulation in which the report on manipulation was delivered. Second to that, people who believe that Obama is bad or unworthy of being elected may buy into the claims and those who do like him are unlikely to be swayed on the back of such a nonsence article. If it was powerful enough to sway voters then your outrage would be justified but I feel the person writing the article obviously knows how to use NLP terminology but also IMHO appears to be unable to construct a document that will achieve anything worthwhile which to me shows a lack of ability. Once again we see a person with what looks a good text book knowledge of NLP demonstrate that they cannot apply the skills they feel qualified to preach about.

Just look at the document again, laugh and be thankful that the party that supports this crap is soon to be leaving any position of authority, and that is worth laughing about!

Thanks,

Matt

If Obama is a skilled as this report makes out then well done him.

John

Many a man owes his success to his first wife and his second wife to his success

It would be good to of talked at how obama uses body language to anchor points in his speeches, that would be good to discuss or how he uses mneomics to remember all they speeches, that would be a good thread to start. What do you think?

Stephen

stevobaby wrote:

It would be good to of talked at how obama uses body language to anchor points in his speeches, that would be good to discuss or how he uses mneomics to remember all they speeches, that would be a good thread to start.

You might want to check out this post from Max Atkinson's Blog.

So when a good communicator comes along immediately it is assumed that he is skilled in NLP & Hypnosis?

Please!! I bet Obama does not even know the names Richard Bandler & John Grinder let alone Milton Erickson.

That was a pretty rude thread.

Who said Obama was trained or skilled in nlp and hypnosis? Obama uses good body language to anchor points in his speech, i never siad he uses nlp, people use this body language technique without even know they are doing it.

I thought Bandler and Grinder studied successful people to find out how they were successful? Obama is successful in the respect he can communicate to others. He may intuitionaly have this skill that many people turn to self-help and nlp to achieve.

You are wrong to think that the names Bandler, Grinder and Eriksson are only exclusive to the so called nlp'rs. Major players on the political scene are exposed to all the self development possible.

If you can explain other ways Obama can remember speeches without using developed techniques then can you enlighten us?

If Obama hasn't been trained in Body language can you enlighten us by explaining why he is so good at it?

It would be good to hear you explain your previous thread Jason

Stephen

So following that logic, I assume that any successful comedian or performer is trained in NLP? And if you want to tell me that applies to Bono and Robin Williams, how about going back in time to the days before Bandler and crew to James Brown and JFK?

you assume what you like

Michael_DeBusk wrote:

You might want to check out this post from Max Atkinson's Blog.

thanks very much Michael, very interesting

Stephen

We also discussed the so-called Obama/NLP article here:
Does McCain Have a Chip on His Shoulder? Is Obama talking Baracks?

Where my response was:
As someone pointed out in a discussion of this article on the "Skeptics Dictionary" thread, the article itself is an example of an attempt at covert persuasion.

My personal take is that the article misses the point that most of the jargon of NLP is devised to describe our usual, daily, overt usage of language. You can point to presuppositions or examples of deletion, distortion and generalization in almost any sample of written or spoken language. It doesn't mean that something sneaky and scary is going on.

In fact, I think this article tells us more about the author's own fears than anything about Obama.

Two other points:

- If Obama does have some NLP training - one would think that a president with the abilities negotiate in our best interests, control his own state under pressure, make decisions, and so on would be in the "good stuff" column.

- He's a kick-ass motivator. He makes Tony Robbins look small-time. Obama is a prime candidate for some real modeling.

Anyway... about the article:

The polls are misleading because some of Obama’s commands are designed to be triggered only in the voting booth on November 4th.

Is THAT what happened? I swear I was going in there to vote for the old guy with the Stepford Wife for a running mate... and... the next thing I knew I was voting for Obama... and I haven't been able to listen to Sean Hannity since then, either. Is there an NLP technique to fix that?

Obama is immune to logical arguments like Wright, Ayers, shifting every position, character, and inexperience, because hypnosis affects us on an unconscious and emotional level.

This sentence has affected me on an unconscious and emotional level. I feel a little queasy and like I want to vote for Obama all over again. And now I want to watch Jon Stewart, too.

To many people who see this unaccomplished man’s unnatural and irrational rise to the highest office in the world as suspicious and frightening and to those who welcome it, this document uncovers, explains, and proves the deceptive tactics behind true “Obama Phenomenon” including why younger people are more easily affected.

Thousands of elementary school kids turned up at my polling place. Now I know why! No... wait... the polling place WAS an elementary school...

ug. this thread scares me.

sandiegoguy wrote:

ug. this thread scares me.

Then you might be prone to vote for conservative candidates. There have been at least a couple of studies in recent years showing that people who startle more easily tend to vote for Republicans. Which might explain the fear-mongering campaign tactics of the McCain/Palin team.

Startle Response Linked to Politics - washingtonpost.com

stevobaby wrote:

If Obama hasn't been trained in Body language can you enlighten us by explaining why he is so good at it?

Congruence.

i dont tend to vote on fear, but the post scares me because it gives hypnosis and NLP a bad name, and as someone who is still learning about it, it confuses me when someone manipulates the process that im having trouble fully understanding. i had heard obama was using NLP but not to mind control the masses i figured it was just to build rapport and make his points clear, and get into proper states for effective speech delivery.

thats what i use it for at least. but the Sup. court trial was interesting. so is hypnosis coercion or is the end that defines the means?

thanks for any imput. my country scares me. and i voted for obama, so lets go less political, and more nlp strategy thanks

sandiegoguy wrote:

i dont tend to vote on fear, but the post scares me because it gives hypnosis and NLP a bad name, and as someone who is still learning about it, it confuses me when someone manipulates the process that im having trouble fully understanding. i had heard obama was using NLP but not to mind control the masses i figured it was just to build rapport and make his points clear, and get into proper states for effective speech delivery.

thats what i use it for at least. but the Sup. court trial was interesting. so is hypnosis coercion or is the end that defines the means?

thanks for any imput. my country scares me. and i voted for obama, so lets go less political, and more nlp strategy thanks

I agree with you that the piece perpetuates a view of NLP as manipulative and coercive (while attempting to manipulate and coerce). My personal belief is that the best way to fight fearmongering is with ridicule. Laughter is a powerful and quick method to change your state. It feels a lot better than fear, too.
Do you think the author of that Obama article is laughing or crying right now?

Here's a small demo of hypnotic manipulation- so if you end up buying stuff from the infomercials- the only thing I can as is oops lol

(Pt1 Without filters)
Here's a wonderful site that has many of the worlds best speeches- both political and from the movies - the fact is if you are filtering any speech through any type of contextual frame then your going to find patterns- be that in poetry or Rhetoric- one thing that seems to get missed is that Obama has a staff- with many skills and you can bet one of them would have watched television at some point- and you can bet they would have caught an infomercial- by Tony Robbins- and from that small exposure would have been prompted to see what all this psychological control systems are all about- and the products of this research might have given them "the edge".. and or many be one of his writers might have a degree in linguistics- and you can bet that one of his staff would be a psychology major- which means that- you can bet NLP and using "spin" and other linguistic tools- might be being used- yet as you consider buying that idea- and all the products that will give you the edge now and this is just one example of manipulation..


And are you going to now buy the idea.. "That its all quite Rubbish" and you might want to focus your attention on more important things- like feeling good now.


(Pt2 with filters)
Here's a wonderful site that has many of the worlds best speeches- both political and from the movies - the fact is if you are filtering any speech through any type of contextual frame then your going to find patterns- be that in poetry or Rhetoric- one thing that seems to get missed is that Obama has a staff- with many skills and you can bet one of them would have watched television at some point- and you can bet they would have caught an infomercial- by Tony Robbins- and from that small exposure would have been prompted to see what all this psychological control systems are all about- and the products of this research might have given them "the edge".. and or many be one of his writers might have a degree in linguistics- and you can bet that one of his staff would be a psychology major- which means that- you can bet NLP and using "spin" and other linguistic tools- might be being used- yet as you consider buying that idea- and all the products that will give you the edge now and this is just one example of manipulation..


And are you going to now buy the idea.. "That its all quite Rubbish" and you might want to focus your attention on more important things- like feeling good now.

J

PhilFarber wrote:

I agree with you that the piece perpetuates a view of NLP as manipulative and coercive (while attempting to manipulate and coerce). My personal belief is that the best way to fight fearmongering is with ridicule. Laughter is a powerful and quick method to change your state. It feels a lot better than fear, too.
Do you think the author of that Obama article is laughing or crying right now?

i think he is proud of a masterpiece. i am overwhelmed by the sheer amount of BS (if its BS) in the piece. it is just a lot of process, and compare to my other learnings :/