I was thinking about the way some trainers talk about NLP as if it can solve any issue, I wonder if any NLP people have thought to negotiate peace in the middle east or something big like that? Seriously, if it's all about understanding different maps of the world then why not use it to bring warring people together? Is it such a silly idea? Excuse my first post if I'm missing the point, I just thought it was interesting.

I don't think it is silly or missing the point.

Sometimes NLPers (myself included) forget NLP is just one map (could even be considered a set of tools) and human interaction in certain contexts is far more complex than "simply" communication skills.

If I don't want to agree with someone and if I don't like someone, it doesn't matter how much NLP he/she knows I will still disagree with them. Some people who know SOM's (sleight of mouth) forget the exmaple Dilts included on his book where Richard hold his ground against a whole group using SOMs. It is possible to reframe any reframe... to break rapport to any rapport...

Anyway, NLP is great for many many things but it won't solve world hunger or get rid of wars or fix world's economy any time soon.

I taught some things to a top guy at the UN earlier in the year and I like to think he'll start sorting things out now.

I also like to think we'll have a white Christmas this year, and I like to think someone will buy me a nice sports car for Christmas too...

NLP is useful for some things and especially for changing how you feel about things, but it's not a fix for every problem in the world. Maybe if we could give a few people amnesia for their PNAC plans... but I don't hold much hope of that!

The answer is that there is to much money being made out of war's,if a country decides it doesn't like the way america is running the world as long as it's not one of the major power's then america can invade them,but the war would be over in a matter of months,so the arm's manufactures that put money into the presidents election fund won't make a lot of profit,but here's the clever part by pushing the president to declare war on terror the arm's manufactures can guarantee that the "war" will last for about fifty year's making money for the arm's manufactures,giving jobs to the workers and developing new ways of killing people,every body's happy, the president can say he's helping stamp out terror as well as boosting the economy,the arms people are making huge profits and folks have jobs.

America has a huge army if it sent them to iraq the war would be over quickly,but then no war you either have to pay the army to sit on it's backside or you slash the numbers,if you slash the numbers you have a massive increase in unemployment,bad figures for the economy,so the "war" is good all round except for the boy's and girls being killed and even then the people who make the body bags are earning a profit.

Sorry for the rant,but all it takes is the leaders to sit down and talk,but they won't untill a lot of people on both sides of the conflicts have died,then they sit down and talk.

It as always been the same old men, sending young men out to die.

Again sorry for the rant. john

Hey John, and that is just the tip of the iceberg in my opinion.

anon e mouse wrote:

Sorry for the rant,but all it takes is the leaders to sit down and talk,but they won't untill a lot of people on both sides of the conflicts have died,then they sit down and talk.

I think you’ve mentioned the real leverage point for peace – it’s seems the groups that run governments pay more attention to declining profits then body counts. Now if both sides had declining profits caused by war then they might talk. I guess the question is how can such groups make peace more profitable then war.

My suggestion for a rapid decline in war activities – put silicon chips in all the guns and bombs – then sit back and watch all the weaponry mysteriously breakdown. You’ll have hundreds of thousands of soldiers thumbing manically through technical manuals tying to make the darn things work – Oh and the rest of the soldiers tours of duty will be spent trying to get through to the technical support centres which were relocated during peace time to cheaper waged countries they’re currently now trying to bomb – Oh, the misinformation would be spectacular! AND don’t even mention giving the army a new IT system.

Tony –

Anyone confident of their skills hypothetically if you were called on to negotiate?

I hate it when people make glib comments like the one I'm about to make, so please forgive me doing it this once: it's a bit like asking 'if medical science is so good how come people still die?'

Simply, I don't think the ongoing existence of war and conflict proves anything about NLP except that maybe not everyone has learned it, it hasn't reached a state of perfection and that maybe no amount of NLP will stop people who are determined to wage war.

Am I confident of my negotiating skills? Yes, however I also think resolving conflict in the Middle East is not exactly in the same ballpark as closing a sale or resolving a customer complaint. Maybe the NLP models work well up to a certain number of 'parts' and then another model is necessary. (There are a lot of 'parts' that would have to get aligned to resolve the Middle East conflicts, after all.) I don't know, I'm just thinking out loud. And at the end of the day, if someone prefers war to giving up values or a beliefs, then you could say they have negotiated the best outcome for them, in those conditions, at that time.

Either way, NLP will definitely help progress negotiations I'm sure.

Cheers

In fact there aren't as many wars as there would have been if NLP hadn't been around.

John

How hard is it to decide to be in a good mood and then just be in a good mood?

Steve_W wrote:

Either way, NLP will definitely help progress negotiations I'm sure.

Cheers

That's a nice thought until everyone learns the slight of mouth patterns- then we get into an even more set of complex complexities-

J

Could you imagine trying to integrate the positive intentions behind the ideologies of USA and Europe with those of Iran’s? One very messy parts party and one big headache for one very brave NLP practitioner! Or might such a task be more suitable for a Master Practitioner? Nah – a practitioner could handle it.

(Not that we do the visual squash in SNLP anymore .)

Tony -

Hi All

Like Gabe mentioned, I also think it is the tip of the iceberg.

After seeing the movie Zietgiest, and if what is presented in the world banking system / domination segments of the movie ..... is in fact true or even partially true.....then perhaps using NLP for peace negotiations between waring countries would be as effective as using NLP on the people who are the financial powers and beneficiaries behind these wars.

I dont normally buy into conspiracy theories and the like but some of the information presented in the movie just resonated a little too much with what is happening in the world.

It was interesting to watch my partners reaction to the religious segment of the movie. A great example of how having our beliefs challenged and our boundaries pushed produces profound state changes.

Too good an opportunity for me not to observe and callibrate her reactions and then anchor the states. I discovered she has the same reaction to pushy people and saleman.

I wonder, where could I have fun using this knowledge? I can say that I now really look forward to going clothes and shoe shopping with her.



Have a great day.

Frederic

Kathy, welcome to the site and thank you for opening up a great topic here.

My first thougts were that if all the decision makers were equiped with excellent NLP skills then they would either become more skilled in evoking fear and loathing in people or they would start to question their war policies and soon become a political laughing stock.

I remember doing an activity on my NLP prac course which asked us 'why we do x' when judging ourselves using different levels of authority. As we reached the highest level of authority we mainly found ourselves answering to our individual Gods and then our belief that we were 'right' in anyway was quickly laughed off. Well G Dubbya Bush claimed that God told him to invade Iraq and when a person has the arrogance to delegate blame to God then the guy really does lack any humanity or shoulder any of the blame for the crap they cause. Having said that, how do you stand up to extremely blood thirsty people who claim they are acting at gods will? By confronting them with extremely blood thirsty people who claim they are doing gods work.

Also, those who are in the positions of power only get there with the support of many other people. While they are earning the support behind the scenes then their agendas are set long before they even become candidates for the top seats.

I wonder how many potentially great politicians have left their careers early because their morals got in the way?

Thanks

Matt

One of the main columns of NLP is the world famous "The map is not the territory". From my opinion, this is the biggest, the hardest and the most important topic to learn in NLP.

I've never seen any person in my life with a full comprehension of this topic. I think is the clue. I'm still working on me to improve this skill of understanding the boundaries between my perception of the reality and the reality itself, and the perception of the reality of other people.

But again, I think that even with all the common people of the world thinking in this way, there are some people (not a lot , actually) that have completely different interests.

I think they are ruling the world, and in their way of understanding the world, probably wars are necessary for all the reasons that are enough well explained above.

¿NLP for the common people? Perhaps, but just take a look to the top NLP guru's in the world. Are they a model of understanding and love between them?

Maybe NLP could help people to be more aware about this reality and that could help to change those rules of the world, and to be freer to have a world without wars and violence.

Hey,

Really interesting insights.

I am a Big Fan of "CHOICE" ... wait let me make it bold ..CHOICE.

I would not work with the client against his/her choice. We already mentioned earlier about Map. It is the choice that matters. i also agree that there are lot of ways where you can bypass choice. But, at the end of the day it is the choice of the individual that matters.

I am sure NLP can help if (Or when) US authorities, Middle east authorities and the terrorist groups acting there makes a choice to end the war. Just imagine this, IF all the peolple involved in the war (I mean every single one of them) goes to Richard bandler or any of us with a specific outcome in mind, which is to end the war, then i am sure we will be able to negotiate and help them end the war (The way i look at it, chunk up --> get to the common outcome --> resolve it).

It is the choice that matters. In their world (people involved in war) they have some value or belief that says WAR is NECCESARY. Untill they dont make the choice to end the war, it would be Not so easy job to Shift the belief. It is not that NLP wont work, it is just the matter of choice, weather or not they wanna end it.

I respect the Map of each and every individual. There is no RIGHT and WRONG. WAR is not WRONG. Its just the point of view of different people that makes it RIGHT or WRONG. For, someone with a normal job and a normal life, it can be wrong. For some terrorist in middle east, it can be right.

If a terrorist comes to me for coaching with regards to a nuclear attack in any part of the world, I might help him. i wanna say this again, i *MIGHT* (its not a will) help him in future. (Please dont complian against me to cops, as of now in my Map i wont).

At the end i would say, Anything related to NLp or Hypnosis works if the Client (or anyone) makes a CHOICE to shift it.

ANy different opinions or DiSagreement are welcome

Nishith

imjames407 wrote:

I would have thought that if NLP was so good then these wouldn't be necessary.

John


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Just to start with, I notice that someone is systematically giving everyone a thumbs down for their post, so please don't leave me out. Thank you.

OK, here's 'my map'. The world has been around for almost 5 billion years and there's been life on the planet for 5 million years. And despite everything, the planet is still here. The earth is in balance.

Compared to the lifespan of the earth, human lifespan is is no more than a spark that glows briefly, then fades away. Call it what you will, but I will use the term 'Mother Earth'. And she keeps things in balance.

There is a finite amount of food, water and energy, and that finite amount of resources can support a finite number of living beings.

Imagine if, just for twelve months, NOBODY died of old age, war, illness or 'accident'. What would that do to the numbers for world population?

NLP makes life 'better' for some and we are all on the side of change-for-the-better, but my map says that there is a reason why some things are the way they are. We can change 'some' things, but not all.

People get what they expect to get.

Just 'my map' though.

Tony_Rollings wrote:

(Not that we do the visual squash in SNLP anymore .)

Tony -

Don't we?

James

I was talking to a Belfast taxi driver a while ago and he reckoned that the whole reason that the peace process in Ireland has been successful (with a few exceptions) is that the people who were making a lot of money out of the violence saw that they could make even more when the city became peaceful.

Sure, he said, there were many wrongs on both sides but what kept it going so long was the money to be made out of protection money. "give us some money so we can be sure your shop doesn't get bombed."

If people can make easy money out of doing bad stuff then some of them will do it. NLP might help them to consider other options, but perhaps they don't want to.

Talking to taxi drivers is one of the best reasons to travel.