In used to play "Sylvia" in my rock band when I was a school. That was by Focus.

Sounds like Hocus Pocus to me Nick

adrian r wrote:

The issue here is that you are judging certain thoughts as being extraneous and counterproductive. Problem being, we have no real way of knowing whether such thoughts are necessary. It may be that the brain has to generate a whole bunch of thoughts in order for you to have some apparently useful ones: one thing we do know about thinking is that it is associative. What this means is that you might have a sequence of thoughts that goes grapes - wine - dinner - dinner with friends tonight at 8, remember to buy some cheese...now, the last thought is the one that's 'useful' in that it contains a reminder and an action to do, but you wouldn't have got there without the stuff preceding. See? Appreciate everything you find in your mind, and you'll get on much better with it. And maybe what you need is more in the direction of goal setting than focus...

I appreciate your efforts. However, the feelings and thoughts that I am referring to are not of the helpful nature that you suspect they are. They are irrelevant and unhelpful and need to go away.

John

southnick wrote:

Are there some things that you can focus on? Games, films, books anything else?

If there are then you know how to focus. You just don't know how to apply it to a particular task yet.

Build up the motivation for that task until it becomes intense and the focus will follow.

Visualisation,anchors and time lines are good tools to build the motivation.

Thanks. I can focus fine at times, but at other times non-helpful and counterproductive thoughts and feelings arise. Instead I need my mind to quiet down. Regarding visualizing myself being focused while completing tasks, it is a great tool and is quite helpful. However, using it to deal with the issue poses its own problem: chiefly one of the large amounts of time required to thorougly visualize all the different steps of all the different things I will be doing for the day. Moreover, it becomes a huge problem when my plans for the day end up repeatedly changing. As a result, I end up having to go through the visualization process again and again. It tires my brain and consumes a lot of time. In addition, it is not practical to use in public since standing around for a long period of time with my eyes closed (or open) visualizing will draw attention and cause others to wonder.

How can I build up motivation for a task using visualization?

How are timelines useful in this situation?

John,

Why do you believe you must use visualization to build up motivation for a task?

How about some nice, simple, deep breathing instead??

Venus

Here, here, Venus! I'm all for breathing!

Or listening to just the right piece of music! That can often do it for me.

Phil

Jay Budzynski wrote:

Hi John

This is going to be the less technical reply your going to get- "STOP THINKING" get the F***ing job done- if you have more than one thing to do- prioritise- what your doing then do that one thing- your focus will come automatically as you get on with it.

Not the most elegant way of making the point- yet just do what you are meant to be doing and stop f**ing about..

PS I would give myself a thumbs down- yet I can't so will you lot help- I want at least 30 thumbs down.. anything less than that really means its a thumbs up post lol


You might like to check out flow by Mihaly Csikszentmihalyi and indispensable guide to the topic of mental focus and well worth a read for anyone involved with learning.

Amazon.com: Flow: The Psychology of Optimal Experience: Mihaly Csikszentmihalyi: Books

You might like to also check out the Education, Schooling and Learning. The Learning Web as it as some ideas to help with concentration and memory training which is another path of developing focus.


How do you know when you are focused?

What happens to your way of thinking when you pay special attention to something you like?

What are you not thinking about when you not thinking?

What wound not happen it you did not think about not thinking?

How do you tell the difference between your coat, car, bike, cell/mobile phone? etc. and some one else's?

I think you focus very well- I just don't think you take the right actions- in the directions you want- how would you walk from your house to the town centre? what streets? and other land marks would you have to walk by to get there? if you can work that out in your head- it's just a matter of taking the actions- to get the job done.

ps. the questions are for you I don't need to know the answers


J

thanks for the book and website recommendations. I'll have a look at them.

I know when I am focused because when focused, my mind is stil (that is, there is no unnecessary internal chatter)

and there are no feelings negatively impacting my productivity (ie, I don't feel that I will not be successful

reaching my goals of getting things done quickly. I don't feel that everything is going to happen slowly and take

forever to do.)
when I pay attention to something I like, my attention improves.
when I'm not thinking, I'm not thinking and feeling how hard or unlikely it will be that I will be successful

completing my tasks.
I tell the difference by liooking at the data on the cell phone and any unique info on the other objects.


I wish it were that simple. Unfortunatley, though I may decide to keep my mind focused on one thing and for unhelpful thoughts and feelings to not appear, they appear anyway.

venus_brown wrote:

John,

Why do you believe you must use visualization to build up motivation for a task?

How about some nice, simple, deep breathing instead??

Venus

I wonder if breathing will eliminate the unhelpful feelings and thoughts. I'll give it a try.

John Roslo wrote:

I wish it were that simple. Unfortunatley, though I may decide to keep my mind focused on one thing and for unhelpful thoughts and feelings to not appear, they appear anyway.

Here's something an Ericksonian therapist that I have seen says about thoughts (when you are wanting to not have them).

And from time to time a stray thought may come to your attention. Simply acknowledge it, and thank it for being there, and then allow it to drift away.

I know it seems simple, but many times I have heard people say (on this forum and other places), the simple solutions are often the best ones.

Of course thoughts appear, John. And they are part of you. And you can thank your mind for having them there, and then allow your mind the option of working in ways that are more useful to you, and yet serve the same purpose...

pcadams wrote:

Here, here, Venus! I'm all for breathing!

Or listening to just the right piece of music! That can often do it for me.

Phil

Not sure what constitutes the "right" music.

pcadams wrote:

Here's something an Ericksonian therapist that I have seen says about thoughts (when you are wanting to not have them).

And from time to time a stray thought may come to your attention. Simply acknowledge it, and thank it for being there, and then allow it to drift away.

I know it seems simple, but many times I have heard people say (on this forum and other places), the simple solutions are often the best ones.

Of course thoughts appear, John. And they are part of you. And you can thank your mind for having them there, and then allow your mind the option of working in ways that are more useful to you, and yet serve the same purpose...

I try practicing this and seeing how it works.

I especially wonder what can be done about the counterproductive feelings.

"you say" I wish it were that simple.<<< What would allow it to be simple?

Can you take a little time to read back your own reply- and with each reference- with your best imagination - remember a time when you add/had each and all of the components- for each references and as you feel, hear and see how you can recall- each state- take a little time to allow it to flow through your body-mind and when you feel and think you have it as fully as you can take a deep breathe- press your finger and thumb together and in a calm strong inner voice say the world "flow" after you have go through the sequence 7-11 times- you might find getting in to this designer state becomes automatic..

J

Forum Tag--YOU'RE IT!

I'm not sure either, John, about what type of music might be best for you. That is up to you. You could think about all different kinds of music and how they illicit various responses for you, and then think about the kind of music that would best serve the purpose. I listen to lots of different kinds of music, because I find it useful to keep me moving in the various directions my day might take me, or where I might want to go...I might use my feet to walk to the mailbox, or the trash can, or even the grocery store two blocks away. I might need something different to get me more efficiently to the doctor's office three miles away!

Be well,

Phil

Anyone mentioned see what happens you expand your peripheral vision?

Hi John

I have been having similar problems with taking in, remembering and understanding information. One strategy that has worked for me is to

1. Disengage your thoughts; tell your internal voices to "shut up".

2. Just do it, get started and just go with it, do something towards it.

3. Think of the benefits of having done the activity (fell Better) or the consequences of not having done it (feel worse) ... which ever floats your boat.

4. If all else fails, set out to do it for ten minutes ....even if you can't focus... and decide later to continue... or not.

I remember the other day I was struggling to concentrate on organising myself and kept thinking about all the things I had to do, overwhelm and I could not concentrate. I had just read about trying things out that another person does well; imagine doing it wearing their skin. You know, John, step into someone else’s skin and do it as if you were them.

Do you know anyone who can really focus or imagine what it would be like to be someone who can really focus?

I have this friend, she is loud, abrasive and she is also extremely organised. I thought about her and how she manages to juggle so many things at once, her single minded concentration is amazing. So I imagined what it would be like doing it wearing her skin. I said to myself, "try it out for ten minutes and see what happens."

I sat at my desk, imagined unzipping her skin... stepping into the new skin ...wriggling around so that it fits well...zipping it up ... just start the activity. Its was the old adage of "before you know it ... I was organising my desk, clearing out trays, old messages and emails, transferring appointments on my scheduler... an hour had passed. By doing something, new and different, there were no voices or distractions, it was great to be fully involved in a task I had not been able to concentrate on doing and discovered WOW... I actually enjoy doing this. :cool:

I have tried this approach several times under different circumstances, each time learnt something new, I wonder, if you'll also find the results as immediate or maybe it will take you a little longer.

There are two phrases I learnt during my initial NLP weekend, that go hand in hand and still have an impact on me now. "Believe nothing and test everything" and "Pick up another matchstick" (if something doesn’t work try something else until you find something that works).

It took me awhile to start experimenting and to try things out from another’s perspective, the skin game is a great way to find what works for you and what doesn’t. If it doesn’t, well “pick up another matchstick”

Enjoy yourself and have a great day

Frederic

adrian r wrote:

The issue here is that you are judging certain thoughts as being extraneous and counterproductive. Problem being, we have no real way of knowing whether such thoughts are necessary. It may be that the brain has to generate a whole bunch of thoughts in order for you to have some apparently useful ones: one thing we do know about thinking is that it is associative. What this means is that you might have a sequence of thoughts that goes grapes - wine - dinner - dinner with friends tonight at 8, remember to buy some cheese...now, the last thought is the one that's 'useful' in that it contains a reminder and an action to do, but you wouldn't have got there without the stuff preceding. See? Appreciate everything you find in your mind, and you'll get on much better with it. And maybe what you need is more in the direction of goal setting than focus...

Good point! It is not important to eliminate irrelevant thoughts but to simply not respond to the irrelevant ones. By practice you develop a "trance" which does this filtering process for you. This is what happens when I play music for instance. Thoughts that are irrelevant to the performance still happen but do not feed into your spontaneous unconscious behaviour. In my experience it usually takes me a few months to develop this kind of state consistently for a new skill.

I think trying to "resist", "fight" or "eliminate" thoughts will just create more chaos in your brain and more distractions that interfere with natural progress. Get a little Zen about it, Don't fight it, just let it go past. With practice it becomes the norm for that task and you will build an anchor for the state. So with the music example walking on stage, picking up an instrument becomes a trigger for it.

Jay Budzynski wrote:

"you say" I wish it were that simple.<<< What would allow it to be simple?

Can you take a little time to read back your own reply- and with each reference- with your best imagination - remember a time when you add/had each and all of the components- for each references and as you feel, hear and see how you can recall- each state- take a little time to allow it to flow through your body-mind and when you feel and think you have it as fully as you can take a deep breathe- press your finger and thumb together and in a calm strong inner voice say the world "flow" after you have go through the sequence 7-11 times- you might find getting in to this designer state becomes automatic..

J

Interesting. I'll try it.

pcadams wrote:

Forum Tag--YOU'RE IT!

I'm not sure either, John, about what type of music might be best for you. That is up to you. You could think about all different kinds of music and how they illicit various responses for you, and then think about the kind of music that would best serve the purpose. I listen to lots of different kinds of music, because I find it useful to keep me moving in the various directions my day might take me, or where I might want to go...I might use my feet to walk to the mailbox, or the trash can, or even the grocery store two blocks away. I might need something different to get me more efficiently to the doctor's office three miles away!

Be well,

Phil

Thanks. Now I know why I need to start using my iPod :-)

anony67 wrote:

Anyone mentioned see what happens you expand your peripheral vision?

You lost me with that one. I have no clue what you are referring to.

Tranquil_Lotus wrote:

Hi John

I have been having similar problems with taking in, remembering and understanding information. One strategy that has worked for me is to

1. Disengage your thoughts; tell your internal voices to "shut up".

2. Just do it, get started and just go with it, do something towards it.

3. Think of the benefits of having done the activity (fell Better) or the consequences of not having done it (feel worse) ... which ever floats your boat.

4. If all else fails, set out to do it for ten minutes ....even if you can't focus... and decide later to continue... or not.

I remember the other day I was struggling to concentrate on organising myself and kept thinking about all the things I had to do, overwhelm and I could not concentrate. I had just read about trying things out that another person does well; imagine doing it wearing their skin. You know, John, step into someone else’s skin and do it as if you were them.

Do you know anyone who can really focus or imagine what it would be like to be someone who can really focus?

I have this friend, she is loud, abrasive and she is also extremely organised. I thought about her and how she manages to juggle so many things at once, her single minded concentration is amazing. So I imagined what it would be like doing it wearing her skin. I said to myself, "try it out for ten minutes and see what happens."

I sat at my desk, imagined unzipping her skin... stepping into the new skin ...wriggling around so that it fits well...zipping it up ... just start the activity. Its was the old adage of "before you know it ... I was organising my desk, clearing out trays, old messages and emails, transferring appointments on my scheduler... an hour had passed. By doing something, new and different, there were no voices or distractions, it was great to be fully involved in a task I had not been able to concentrate on doing and discovered WOW... I actually enjoy doing this. :cool:

I have tried this approach several times under different circumstances, each time learnt something new, I wonder, if you'll also find the results as immediate or maybe it will take you a little longer.

There are two phrases I learnt during my initial NLP weekend, that go hand in hand and still have an impact on me now. "Believe nothing and test everything" and "Pick up another matchstick" (if something doesn’t work try something else until you find something that works).

It took me awhile to start experimenting and to try things out from another’s perspective, the skin game is a great way to find what works for you and what doesn’t. If it doesn’t, well “pick up another matchstick”

Enjoy yourself and have a great day

Frederic

Thanks. I will give this one a try. I especially like the idea of "wearing another's skin" :-)