HI Guys & Girls,

I orignally posted this on my private Yahoo Hypnotorious Group and thought it may make for an interesting discussio here...

Yes the heading was meant to be controversial and offensive to get
you to read this posting as its very important and potentially life
changing for you all..

FIRSTLY - I have barred Dr. Nathaniel from the Yahoo Hypnotorious
Newsgroup as frankly if anyone is going to tell it like it truly is
and upset people on this group its me as its my group - LOL!

However on the subjects of ETHICS - RULE'S - LAWS - LEGISLTAION AND
JOINING PROFESSIONAL BODIE'S I am about to answer any and all
questions you may have and also perhaps raise ones you did not
realise you had..

So yes this is a long posting and when replying, please do DELETE ALL
of what I have written first so you don't jam up everyones inboxes..

OK so heres what the National Council For Hypnotherapy say on their
site at this time about Regulation:

http://www.hypnotherapists.org.uk/cms/news_item.asp?LTid=133

BOTTOM LINE = There is no Legally recognised qualification or
registration for Hypnosis and/or NLP in England and there are
currently no plans for this.

Next take a look at what it says at this web link:

http://www.hypnotherapists.org.uk/cms/news_item.asp?LTid=224

This is BOLLOCK'S and just another way for the stuck up straight
laced wankers to attempt to take control of the industry and try to
set up a monopoloy on training where acreditation is only offered to
those in the clic and then only for a yearly fee for a piece of
fundamentally worthless paper!

NOW CHECK OUT THIS LINK:

http://www.ukcho.co.uk/about_the_ukcho.htm

Apparently STAGE-HYPNOTIST'S can't join - WHY NOT?

Basically that means Paul Mckenna can't join but do you think he
cares?

It means I can't join and yet I see clients reguarly and indeed have
helped to train some of the worlds leading Hypnotherapists but just
cause I do stage I am excluded - now thats what I call Bollocks!

Especially when on this page:
http://www.ukcho.co.uk/about_the_ukcho.htm they say and I quote:

The UK Confederation of Hypnotherapy Organisations was founded in
1998 in order to provide a non political arena to discuss and
implement changes to the profession of hypnotherapy.

NON POLICTICAL MY ARSE - What they seem to forget is that where it
not for STAGE HYPNOTIST'S

a) Keeping Hyposis alive and in the public eye

b) Over the years developing many techniques which therapists now
take for granted and claim as their own.

THEN THERE WOULD BE NO HYPNOTHERAPY & NLP BUSINESS

Indeed True History Shows that Mesmer was A Street Performer and
the "Stage Hypnotist" of his time who earnt money from entertaining
and initially only gave so called cures as a sideline until this
became his bigger business..

Whoops that sounds incredibly like Paul MckEnnas career path also!

FACT = Many of the worlds leading Hypnotherapy Trainers and Respected
names in Hypnosis Training are and/or have been STAGE HYPNOTISTS..so
why do the National Council for Hypnotherapy and such like BAN Stage
Hypnotists - yet I bet they'd let many of the following become
members (some are dead for illustration only)

JONATHAN ROYLE - http://www.hypnotherapycourse.net

Richard Nongard - http://www.subliminalscience.com/

Ormond McGill - http://www.hypnotherapy.com/ormond_mcgill.html

GIL BOYNE - http://www.gil-boyne.com/

Peter Casson - http://www.hypno1.co.uk/BookBiographies.htm#Casson

Neil French - http://www.hypnoanalysis.com/history.html

Tom Silver - http://www.tomsilver.com/

Paul Mckenna - http://www.paulmckenna.com/

All of the people in the above list (living and dead) are GREATLY
RESPECTED in their fields as a) Competent Ethical Therapists that get
positive results for their clients and usually also b) As One of the
Worlds Leading Trainers of Hypnosis and NLP Techniques..

BUT GET THIS - THEY ALL ARE OR HAVE BEEN ACTIVE STAGE HYPNOTIST'S

In fact all the one's that are still living STILL DO STAGE HYPNOSIS
SHOWS or would I am certain for the right client so are The National
Council for Hypnotherapy & UKCHO saying that they would not let these
people be members?

THATS A MONOPOLY MENTALITY AND MONOPOLY'S ARE ILLEGAL..

Indeed I could add many more names to the list but I hope you get my
point these so called ETHCIAL SOCIEITIES are so full of bullshit and
self importance that they BAN the people that have provided them with
an industry in the first place or at least they "pretend" to ..

I say "pretend" to because be honest other than Controversial me do
you honestly believe that any of the people mentioned in the above
list would be turned down for membership???

NO of course not - they'd be happy to have such names connected to
their membership and thats DOUBLE STANDARD'S and my feeling is if the
public knew what double standards these idiots have then they would
not go to any therapist that was a member of them.

I QUOTE FROM THEIR SITE AGAIN:

"UKCHO does not condone the use of stage hypnosis, and stage
hypnotists are not acceptable as members of UKCHO Member
Organisations or Associate Member Organisations."

Now take a look at the list of MEMBER BODIES whom by the above
statemen will a) NOT TRAIN AND/OR ALLOW STAGE HYPNOTISTS TO BE
MEMEBRS..

http://www.ukcho.co.uk/member_bodies.htm

And heres some comments on some of them as follows:

http://www.aphp.co.uk - Terrence Watts - I could actually legally get
his Trademark of APHP removed as on file we have an order form from
him buying my home study CMT course and proof that he only registered
the trademark of APHP some months after obtaining my course which
mentions APHP throughout, further I can provide proof that APHP was
being used connected to Hypnotherapy since the mid to late 1980's by
Brian Howard who later gave me permission to us ethe initials and
market his courses etc... NOT EXACTLY ETHICAL THEN IS HE? -
Especially when he had the cheek to threaten me with court action for
using the initials APHP when in fact I have the legal rights and
proof to be able to a) Get his Trademark Revoked and b) Stop him ever
using APHP in any manner connected to hypnosis....

http://www.thehypnotherapyassociation.co.uk - Costa Lambrias is a
member of this group as are many other members and committe members
of their society. Indeed at least TWO of the commitee members have
done STAGE HYPNOSIS training in person with me at my seminars so
again double standards?

http://www.ukguild.com - Wilf Proudfoot was originally taught by I
understand GIL BOYNE and uses materials licensed from GIL who is and
has been a STAGE HYPNOTIST... can you see a pattern starting here?

http://www.abc-hypnotherapy.co.uk - Bill Atkinson Ball was known for
his Instant Stage Style inductions and I have heard rumours (may be
untrue?) that from time to time he did do STAGE HYPNOSIS..

In fact I could go on and on and on, FACT IS the majority of people
on this list: http://www.ukcho.co.uk/member_bodies.htm have either
attended STAGE HYPNOSIS or Hypnotherapy courses with me in person or
have purchased MANY DVD's which in itself is CONTRADICTORY to the so
called rules they are supposed to be abiding and operating by..

Another example is Ursula Markham -
http://www.mindtec.co.uk/prods/hypnothink.html a respected
hypnotherapy trainer she was married to and learnt much from ROMARK
THE STAGE HYPNOTIST http://sidsmith.blogspot.com/2001/03/ch-ch-ch-ch-
change-is.html

Hopefully you will have got my point by now regarding STAGE
HYPNOTIST'S and the majority of Hypnotherapists who frankly ARE SHIT
AT HYPNOTISING PEOPLE compared to the majority of Stage Hypnotists
that I have encountered...

And another example is JONATHAN CHASE - http://www.jonathanchase.com/
one time STAGE HYPNOTIST who does some shows still and yet teaches
Hypnotherapy..

My point is that the likes of all the members listed here:
http://www.ukcho.co.uk/member_bodies.htm have frankly got their head
stuck up their arses as have in my opinion the majority of people who
pay good money each year to be a member of these worthless "shit
heaps" (just my opinion) of brainwashing, controlling, we want to
look ethical and powerful but actually can't earn a decent living
without charging people yearly fees for a scabby membership types.

The truth about Hypnosis and NLP certfication etc in England and many
other places is here: http://www.hypnotherapycertification.biz/

And I'd suggest that you consider (relating to me Jonathan Royle and
my hypnosis trainings and certifications in NLP - Hypnosis and my
creation of Complete Mind Therapy) these two web links:

http://www.mindpowerprofits.com/testimonials.htm and also:

http://www.hypnotherapycourse.net/

I mention this beacuse the DIPLOMA'S I ISSUE are 100% Legal and 100%
as good if not better than any you can obtain anywhere else and heres
my proof for this:

A GRANDFATHER CLAUSE?

Taken From: http://www.allanturner.co.uk/papers/transpersonal.html

"When a new field of endeavor is put under legislative control, the
regulative laws usually include a clause that allows people already
recognized as qualified in this area to be licensed. This is
called, "the grandfather clause."

And lets face it with testimonials for my training like those shown
earlier MY COURSE'S will be 100% legally entitled to such and
therefore my Certifications will also be LEGALLY RECOGNISED in the
same manner as others around if (big if) and when (doubt it) such
regulation and laws ever did come into force in UK.

And here's a dictonary definiion of "Grandfather Clause"

Grandfather Clause
An exemption that allows persons or entities to continue with an
activity they were engaging in before it became illegal through a
change in regulation.

Notes:
For example, imagine there's a passing of a new law that states
restaurants can serve only food with less than ten grams of fat per
serving. If accompanied by a grandfather clause, the law would affect
only new restaurants. All restaurants that began operating prior to
the law would therefore be allowed to continue selling their
products, regardless of whether their fat content exceeds the ten-
gram limit. Because of the change in regulation, however, new
restaurants must abide by the new law. Grandfathering is a debatable
practice that often hinders some and benefits others.

IN OTHERWORD'S EVERYONE I HAVE AND DO ISSUE CERTIFICATIONS TO before
any such UK Law and/or regulation takes place will 100% Legally Be
able to remain trading, and guess what I DON'T RIP PEOPLE OFF FOR A
YEARLY FEE!

Frankly what truly PISSE ME OFF is all the people charging people
yearly membership fees for what at this time is fundamentally a
useless piece of paper with no true legal worth, certainly no more
worth than any I issue to people..

In fact lets be honest the bits of paper are only for YOUR EGO'S and
for your clients perception of you..

A piece of paper does not make you a good therapist, in fact it
offers the public NO PROTECTION WHATSOEVER - they just think it does
at the moment as I explain on my DVDS...

I ALSO HATE THERAPISTS who take many sessions to "CURE" things that
can be done in ONE SESSION in far quickr time for less cost to the
client..

Yes many therapists out there ARE RIPPING OFF THEIR CLIENT'S but
perhaps doing so intentionally as their inferior brain washed
training led them as therapists to believe that these problems could
not be CURED in one session.

Degrees wise mine is in Psychology from http://www.chelseau.org.uk/
and based on all my products here http://www.hypnotherapycourse.net -
indeed my book alone on hypnosis is more than twice the size of a
nomal dissetation.. AND YES ITS LEGAL as it has been APOSTILLED (see
http://www.apostille.biz/?crtag=Google1 - and also been stamped by UK
Minsitry and Commonwealth office..

FACT IS - The Law states that as long as I can do what my piece of
paper claims I can (with exception of such things as a Medical
Doctor) then I am not misleading anyone and as such its 100% Legal..

TRUTH = Yes its only there for marketing and to increase perception
with my clients BUT IT WORK'S and it works well..

As an ETHICAL therapist its my belief that you should DO EVERYTHING
THAT IS LEGAL to help your clients in the fastest ad safest way
possible.

And as a human ebing I think you owe it to yourself and family to
MAKE AS MUCH MONEY AS POSSIBLE and thats where marketing comes in..

I could keep going on but I reckon this post will stir a big enough
hornets nest..

POINT IS: open your eyes, stop being sheep led by stuck up wanna be
power tripping committee members who in many cases are actually not
particualry good therapists..

Just some thoughts

Alex (Jonathan Royle) Smith
http://www.selfgrowth.com/experts/jonathan_royle.html

PS: Please do circulate this to all your therapists friends and tell
them to join this group http://groups.yahoo.com/group/hypnotorious in
order to post their replies.

PPS: I am going to email this is JONATHAN CHASE - yes I know wwe fell
out once and I banned him from the group but he is a very clever man
and I would love to hear his comments on this posting.

PPS: Lets remember that one of the reasons Bandler conined the name NLP was to get around some US Hypnosis Laws!

Yes, Alex,

I found your ravings quite interesting, especially the part about how Paul McKenna is the reincarnation of Messner...er, or did read that wrong? ;-)

Venus

Perhaps he is or is it me?

After all Mesmer was Controversial in his day and So am I...

Yep thats it I AM MESMER...

You owe me all your careers.... LOL!

Re: LEGISLATION IS THE BIGGEST LOAD OF OLD BOLLOCK'S & IS FOR BRAINWASHED IDIOT'S


Heres the rules for SELF-REGULATION as I see them..

1) Provide exactly what you advertise and only advertise what you can
and will provide..

2) Treat others and all clients exactly the way you'd expect to be
treated yourself.

3) Don't do anything to intentionally harm either phsyically,
mentally, emotionally or spiritually your clients.

4) Do everything to be competent so that you don't do any of the
points on number three by accident and if it does occur put things
right at no charge to the client.

5) Treat the client as quickly and rapidly as is possible and dont do
more sessions than necessary.

6) If you feel your unable to help someone rapidly and can refer them
to someone else who can THEN DO - otherwise be HONEST and tell them
you can not help.

7) Where serious illness of any kind is involved or may possibly be
always work in conjunction with their Doctor and inist their Doctor
knows.

8) Always have full public liablity and professional indemnity
insurance - just in case fr those attention seeking freaks!

9) Make sure everything you do is legal (finding loopholes in the law
is fine as thats legal) and make sure its in the ultimate best
interest of your clients.

Thats pretty much it...

What the customer wants they should get and thats how you make ££/$$

Bollocks to clubs with rules and legilstaion..

Those who think for themselves will always be more successfull and
ultimately help more people

Hugs

Alex

Hi There,

Now this is a funny site and follows on from the discussions which
have started about hypnoherapy regulation and such like on the Yahoo
Hypnotorious Newsgroup (just look through the archives)

Anyhow have a look at the stuff I discuss in this posting and tell me
then honestly that hese people are not just a bunch of brainwashed
wannabe hitlers who are small minded and prejudiced against such
things as Stage Hypnosis and those who are UNDENIABLY EXPERTS and
innovators in our trade (for example me) but yet would be refused
membership to such groups, which incidentally I WOULD NEVER PAY FOR -
they'd have to invite me FREE and even then I'd probably say no,
especially if their aims seem to be to "Control" members:

http://www.hypnotherapyregulation.co.uk/

Their home page states a quote from Governmenr of:

"With a unified Register of Members, patients and members of the
public would then have a single, reliable point of reference for
standards, and would be protected against the risk of poorly-trained
practitioners and have redress for poor service". (House of Lords
Select Committee on Science and Technology Report on CAM)."

Straight away that is BOLLOCK'S as there are more POORLY TRAINED
THERAPISTS who are already memebers of these groups and in many cases
have set them up or are on the committee than there should be! In
fact there should be none, unfortunately with so many inexperienced
Hypnotherapy trainers out there who in many cases ardly ever see
clients and just run courses is it little wonder that they churn out
more inexperineced and often borderline incompetent therapists???

I speak from expeience as the many positive testimonials I get often
say things like "WE LEARNT MORE FROM YOU THAT WORKS IN THE REAL WORLD
WITH REAL CLIENTS THAN ALL THE OTHER COURSES" - just a tiny fraction
of the comments on file are here:

http://www.mindpowerprofits.com/testimonials.htm and here:

http://www.hypnotherapycourse.net/comments.php and of course here:

http://www.hypnotherapycourse.net/proddetail.php?prod=NLP001

But guess what all of these so called "expert" run associations and
groups would never accept me as a member due to "Stage Hypnosis" or
so thats what they say, I suspect actually its cause people like me
can see through their bullshit, brainwashing and egotisical power
tripping lording it down over other therapists who frankly many times
are FAR BETTER in technical terms than those on the committess...

There are also some other sites worth looking at which when you
EXAMINE CLOSELY further illustrate that despite the impression they
want to give Hypnotherapy will never be legally banned and even if
they tried people would just carry on trading under a different name..

Check these sites out:

http://www.nhsdirectory.org/

http://www.ukstandards.org.uk/ (Then search Hypnotherapy)

All in all none of these sites change the FACT that Hypnosis is as
old as Religion, God was arguably the first Hypnotist and that as an
ordained revd - http://www.themonastery.org/ able to LEGALLY set up
your own "church" you could never be stopped from treating people
with Hypnotherapy whatever happens otherwise they'd have to change
the laws relating to a) Religion and b) Also the Human Rights Act as
this gives you FREEDOM OF RELIGION.

At least this site gets a little closer to the truth:

http://www.hypnosisinformation.co.uk/

But the bottom line is DON'T do what others do if you want totruly be
a success, don't be a sheep - STAND OUT - Be Different as then a) You
find your own niche and success and b) It may motivate all the
brainwashed dudes to get off their arse and start thinking for
themselves.

Getting LOT's OF CLIents who pay you good money and get the fastest
possible CURE to their problems is the best way there ever has been
or ever will be to become and remain a confident and competent
therapist..

RESULTS COUNT - and if you don't hurt anyone or break the law in any
manner (loopholes are LEGAL and as such considered fine) then whats
it matter how you get them the result JUST SO LONG AS THEY GET WHAT
THEY PAID FOR with no harm to them or others???

OH sorry always there will b harm to someone and thats HARM TO YOUR
INFERIOR COMPETITIORS who most likely will be brainwashed members of
such groups who go to the meetings and ague the toss over shit which
frankly does their clients no good and certainly does their business
no good..

The whole thing makes me laugh...

Yes if they ever do bring in LAWS which are enforceable THEN I WILL
RELEASE the complete step by step guide to the LOOPHOLE'S and the
many, many ways round anything that comes into force (which there are
always are)...

Indeed many Stage Hypnotists in UK and Europe would not be working
today if it were not for me and Delavar putting together such
Loopholes with reference to Stage Hypntoism Laws and Guidelines..

Seems to me that Hypnotherapy wise its even easier and at the end of
the day all that will really matter is GETTING CLIENT'S and thats
where Advertsiing, Marketing and Promotion comes into its own.

Kind regards

Alex Smith (Jonathan Royle)
http://www.selfgrowth.com/experts/jonathan_royle.html

Hi Alex,

Over the last few years I have comtemplated coming along to numerous of your courses and like most people I do a little research about who and what before booking anything. I have spent large chunks of my time watching your YouTube clips and reading up about you. I think you have many talents and much to offer, I don't know two sides of any of the stories so I am not here to offer any judgement.

I will, if you are happy for me to do so, ask you some questions about some of what you have posted on this site.

Is that OK? Let me know,

Thanks

Matt

Hi Alex,
Only one question. If you can get so vitrolic about something that is total bollocks, what are you like when discussing something that matters? Or ....

Best wishes
John

Matt ask away whatever you want and it will honestly be answered here!

Thanks Alex,

You seem like a person who plays 'all in' when they get an opportunity, you are not afraid of hard work or getting your hands dirty when needed and you dont shy away from a challenge. With your skillset, why arent you ruling half of the Western world by now and planning to get your hands on the other half yet still be home in time for Eastenders tonight?

With your knowledge, confidence and connections you are sitting on a winning lottery ticket. Why don't you cash it in?

(Apologies if this message comes across in an antagonistic manner, I am writing it quickly as you are currently online. I will tinker it once I have posted it. If you do not like my questions them PM me and I will delete it.)

Thanks

Matt

Quite Simple Matt, because I ltimately want people to be FREE - to have FREEDOM and to be happy..

To "Control" in any manner is negative and Religion and Politics are just two examples of this in action as of course are the many bickering therapy societies out there...

I just want more people to tell the truth and set people FREE so they, Like me can do what they want, when they want, with who they want, wherever they want without ever incurring a penny of debt and without ever doing anything illegal or anything that would intentionally hurt anyone..

Yep probably next to impossible, but we can all dream!

Alex, good answer, thanks.

It does lead me in to more questions though. I am sure we have many allies who share similar ambitions to spread joy and happiness and live a positive life. Maybe this links in with my motivation behind my initial question to you as I have a ambition (with a plan to support it!) to empower people with control over their own lives, (I wont go into detail here about it as this is not the thread for it) but the logistics, financies and network of expertise to put forward such a plan is an enormous task for a mortal teacher who knows nobody in high places.

Yep probably next to impossible

but not actually impossible then?

Thanks for chatting,

Matt

As Benny Hinn the American Evangelical Preacher and wonderful Stage hypnotist (lol) says..

All things are possible for those who BELIEVE...

Living the dream.

'The Fonz' talks dyslexia

Live fast and die young, well, not quite but certainly live life and leave a legendary status legacy behind you.

I am also very impressed with Duncan Bannatyne at the moment.

Matt

I have a question for you Alex, what beliefs do you have or what enables you to feel so comfortable with the media, when others wouldn't feel comfortable to have your level of exposure?

You know I reeeaaaallly didn't want to resurrect this thread but this seems like a good place to put it. I enjoyed Andy Austin's article here on making a transition from a 7 day practitioner course to a therapist.

I hate to think how many NLP practitioners may tell their clients to come off their mdedication without understanding withdrawl symptoms etc

Things like does your parctise comply with regulations (check your councils website) ie. wheel chair access

Being careful about doing any type of 'change history' if someone has to testfy sepcific details about it in court.

Knowing when to refer people on if they can't be handled.

"How do you know that their depression isn't the result of a brain tumour?"

NLP, Hypnosis, Hypnotherapy, Counselling in Chichester, West Sussex, UK

Hi Sam,

Feel free to create new threads. There are *many* threads on the same subject around here.

Be Well,

Michael Perez

I have read the initial piece and get the message. I am curious to know why someone who can obviously be in control of their faculties need to resort to such poor language with a touch of raving thrown in?

Someone once said to me that people who resort to swear words displayed a limited vocabulary and lack of imagination?

I am not sure about this though I feel a sound argument should be communicated in the most positive way.

The message, whilst strong, reminded me too much of the childlike bickering between politicians every Wednesday who often descend into name calling.

Winston Churchill's now famous speeches would have had a very different ring to them if he had followed the same approach:

We will fight the Fuc-ers on the Fuc-ing beaches and we will never surrender to those wa-kers etc????

I guess the model of NLP I prefer is of those who can rise above the lowest common denominator to make their difference?

Cheers.

Hi Nick,

I'm pleased to see someone wants to speak english with a gracious technicality to it... TIME PERMITTING... however..

A word is a word is a word... They do have meaning, even if you don't like what it means or would prefer another way, your own sociolect way of talking. I think its clear the use of the words in Alex's speech are merely for expressing his anger and frustration at the situation, which we all can understand, so what's the problem?

Regards,
Jon

The argument seems sound the problem is if the words used have the potential to get in the way of the argument they may shut off potential supporters?

Is showing emotion an excuse for losing control of your language? If it is then what next, your temper and then your fists etc.

I hope that NLP can be part of the solution to some of the social problems we have at the moment. One way NLP folk could help would be to show that there are always options to how people channel their emotions and behave.

Cheers.

Can you imagine Martin Luther King's I have a dream speech without emotion? Alex used emotion, he merely used different emotion as acceptable within our culture.

perspec1 wrote:

The argument seems sound the problem is if the words used have the potential to get in the way of the argument they may shut off potential supporters?

Is showing emotion an excuse for losing control of your language? If it is then what next, your temper and then your fists etc.

I hope that NLP can be part of the solution to some of the social problems we have at the moment. One way NLP folk could help would be to show that there are always options to how people channel their emotions and behave.

Cheers.