This evening I met a mature philosophy student, Sikh by birth and exploring about six spiritual paths at the same time, varying from Tantrism which urges him to indulge in sensual pleasures, and Gnosticism which is all about renouncing them.

Unsurprisingly, he's confused in the midst of all this. He believes he's not ready for the world of work, and is tempted to go to India to study with a guru. His current lifestyle is enabled by his ability to get funding for his studies, and he's adept at living on a low income.

Obviously, I'm making value judgements about this guy, and I don't pretend otherwise. To me, he seemed more lost than anyone I've met in a long time, articulate and introspective but unable to come to a conclusion about anything.

Many NLP approaches are based around making people feel good to make decisions, but this guy is suspicious of good feelings and has a seemingly endless ability to prevaricate. I'm not drawn to intervening in his situation since it's none of my business, though I would if he asked me to.

How do you go about working with someone who isn't prepared to use feeling good as the foundation for making choices? Similarly, depending on what model you prefer, he was neither congruent nor centred, and sees no reason to be so -- what do you do in such a case?

adrian r wrote:

How do you go about working with someone who isn't prepared to use feeling good as the foundation for making choices? Similarly, depending on what model you prefer, he was neither congruent nor centred, and sees no reason to be so -- what do you do in such a case?

Perhaps he is using a different representation system to make these types of decisions.

John

I would be more pessimistic about things if I thought
there was any chance it might a difference but it won’t

Is feeling good a part of the primary experiences or is it just a result of meaning given to primary experiences?

Have you explored secondary gains with this fellow? Like, what would happen if he came to a conclusion about anything? What would happen if he settled on a philosophy? My knee-jerk reaction is that this guy is using "soul searching" as a means of avoiding the real world--a way of further extending his childhood, as it were.

Or maybe he's one of those guys who takes forever to make a decision about anything. Is this a special case, or does he possibly have a really shitty decision-making strategy? Does he tend to get a lot of "buyer's remorse?"

Most people seem to "adopt" whatever religious beliefs their parents had, or at least, something very close to them. Have you explored reasons why this guy hasn't done that? There might be some fruit in there; who knows?

No, you offer some useful suggestions that might come in handy if I come across the guy again, but I didn't go in those directions on first meeting.

Hmm, this is becoming a theme. Went for lunch with a friend, and a mutual pal turned up. First pal says "Adrian's too happy with all this NLP, James is too down -- I'm fine in the middle."

Is this possible? That NLP can make someone 'too happy'??? I think not. But again it raises the idea that some people are suspicious of happiness.

adrian r wrote:

Is this possible? That NLP can make someone 'too happy'??? I think not. But again it raises the idea that some people are suspicious of happiness.

Absolutely, I think so! For all sorts of reasons. Jealousy, because they think it may be fake, Cultural reasons.

Sometimes culture and religion can give us a secondary gain to feel bad. One of the central messages of Christianity, for example, is that self-sacrifice is good. (Mind you, there are plenty of good things about Christianity too!).

As I've said in a few threads, I have been and still am a bit of a worrier. But I've worked out that one of the reasons I worry about others is because of the 'secondary gain' that I think I'm kinder because I worry. Nonsense of course.

Carry on being happy though!

Steve (happy face, you see!)

adrian r wrote:

Hmm, this is becoming a theme. Went for lunch with a friend, and a mutual pal turned up. First pal says "Adrian's too happy with all this NLP, James is too down -- I'm fine in the middle."

Is this possible? That NLP can make someone 'too happy'??? I think not. But again it raises the idea that some people are suspicious of happiness.

Remember also it's OK to feel sad sometimes when you have lost something or someone and anger is OK to for example when you get mugged.

It's what happens once you recognise those states that counts not the fact that you are never in them.

John

I'm rubber and you're glue, whatever you say bounces off of me and sticks on you

Oh, I'm not compulsively happy. While I was calm when attacked last week, and have slept fine since, I have also felt determined to do what I can to get the perpetrators punished. And been frustrated this morning at a surgery by a worsening in the condition of a leg ulcer I have been sporting for some months.

Just some musings...

It sounds like your student uses 'options' (six religious directions), 'never convinced' meta-program and may be 'away from' values led.

You could ask him what he wants and doesn't want and what is important to him and see what happens.

From a strategy perspective, perhaps he exits the TOTE on a -ve rather than a +ve response. If that is what serves him.

Some religious paths call for abstinence, pain, poverty and suffering.. perhaps he is drawn to these paths to enlightenment than to spiritual joy, the good life and abundance?

In other words, When feeling bad is thought to be good.