I want to enjoy socializing, relating, connecting with others without them relating back to me, or validating me, giving me friendship, or whatever else that I'd enjoy apart from the relationship itself.

simpcore wrote:

I want to enjoy socializing, relating, connecting with others without them relating back to me, or validating me, giving me friendship, or whatever else that I'd enjoy apart from the relationship itself.

How are people supposed to relate positively with you without relating to you, validating you, being friendly, etc?

In other words, I would like to learn how to enjoy others, NOT because of the perks that come from it, but for its own sake.

simpcore wrote:

In other words, I would like to learn how to enjoy others, NOT because of the perks that come from it, but for its own sake.

I'm probably not in the best frame of mind to understand the question. What is it, exactly, that you would be enjoying when you are enjoying others for its own sake?

When I go to social occasions where I don't know anyone I find the best way to enjoy it is to go with the goal of 'finding people interesting'. 'Finding interesting people' can work but is more hit and miss.

When that is my goal I ask them about themselves and find out more about the things that make them get excited. For example Ask someone where they went on holiday and most of the reply will be fairly flat, but there will be something in the reply that seems to make them come alive. Ask them what they really liked about that thing and they become even more alive. Focus on what excites them and they will become more interesting.
It is also an interesting exercise in noticing the points at which people bloom. A great skill to have for almost any activity.

simpcore wrote:

I want to enjoy socializing, relating, connecting with others without them relating back to me, or validating me, giving me friendship, or whatever else that I'd enjoy apart from the relationship itself.

Why,exactly?

Do you mean you want to enjoy the experience of meeting people and getting to know them, even if it doesn't lead anywhere... even if they end up not liking you?

simpcore wrote:

I want to enjoy socializing, relating, connecting with others without them relating back to me, or validating me, giving me friendship, or whatever else that I'd enjoy apart from the relationship itself.

What do you do now?

simpcore wrote:

I want to enjoy socializing, relating, connecting with others without them relating back to me, or validating me, giving me friendship, or whatever else that I'd enjoy apart from the relationship itself.

What is happening to you such that you want something different.

What are other people doing that you don't want? Do you have some examples?

John

Education's purpose is to replace an empty mind with an open one

If you're not going out at present,you could always read a book that might offer some hints as to the potential benefits,Fritjof Capra's "The web of life",for instance.

chris_morris wrote:

Do you mean you want to enjoy the experience of meeting people and getting to know them, even if it doesn't lead anywhere...

Yes

even if they end up not liking you?

Not really. Of course other people like me.


What I mean is I want to enjoy interacting with people for its own sake, instead of as a means for other outcomes.

So you want to enjoy the experience. What stops you?

simpcore wrote:

I want to enjoy socializing, relating, connecting with others without them relating back to me, or validating me, giving me friendship, or whatever else that I'd enjoy apart from the relationship itself.

What an interesting and honest question.

My first thought is that the question is a paradox. I believe we all seek pleasure when we deal with others- we always want something from them! That’s our nature- we seek pleasure and avoid pain. I would therefore reframe your question so that you instead you ask ‘what do you want from other people’? So by this I mean some people get great benefit from giving to others, from listening to other's exciting stories or jokes, from a smile. Is this enough, or do you want more? And if so, why? Perhaps you can get these other things another way?

The other thought I have is about empathy. Do you feel you have empathy with other people? I expect you do. We all do! But perhaps concentrate on this for a while. Maybe practice rapport- its a great way to feel connected to other people.

And lastly, maybe you are expecting too much from yourself, or judging yourself too much. I say, relax and enjoy what other people are giving you.

Good luck, hope this helps!

Enlightenment Steve wrote:

What an interesting and honest question.

Thanks, Steve

My first thought is that the question is a paradox. I believe we all seek pleasure when we deal with others- we always want something from them! That’s our nature- we seek pleasure and avoid pain. I would therefore reframe your question so that you instead you ask ‘what do you want from other people’? So by this I mean some people get great benefit from giving to others, from listening to other's exciting stories or jokes, from a smile. Is this enough, or do you want more? And if so, why? Perhaps you can get these other things another way?

When you put it that way, what comes to my mind is that I find watching people on TV more interesting than people in real life, unless they can give me benefits that I can't get from TV.

The other thought I have is about empathy. Do you feel you have empathy with other people? I expect you do. We all do! But perhaps concentrate on this for a while. Maybe practice rapport- its a great way to feel connected to other people.

Yeah, I'm in love with the concept of rapport... Ha, I just realized that I'm saying I love the "concept" of rapport.

And lastly, maybe you are expecting too much from yourself, or judging yourself too much. I say, relax and enjoy what other people are giving you.

Good luck, hope this helps!

I've been thinking that.

Go for it, try it in different ways, see what you learn about yourself and about other people.

I would suggest adding not judging people to your list.

I would like to hear about what you discover.

z8000783 wrote:

What is happening to you such that you want something different.

What are other people doing that you don't want? Do you have some examples?

John

Education's purpose is to replace an empty mind with an open one

Hi, John.

I can give you an example of recent interaction.

So I was walking by my neighbor's house and he was working on his yard.

Me: Hi!

He: Hey! I'm just catching up with all the work I had to do.

Me: (hmm, is he not in the mood or too busy to talk? I'm just gonna say a few things and leave... Not even having the sense to relate to what he just said, I..) Hey, I heard you fell from your ladder the other day.

He: Yeah! I was listening to a radio show and something really funny was said and I started laughing and it made me fall!

Me: (seeing as he looked alright and wanting to finish the convo b/c I thought he was busy, I didn't ask him if he was okay... But then I say...) Wow! You know I got a new radio system for my car today. (What? That just felt like I was trying to force rapport, and his story was way more interesting)

He: I see.

Me: (that was awkward!) Okay, I'll talk to you later.


And sometimes, I have difficulty telling stories that people can relate to. And I have trouble knowing how much and what kinds of info to give to people for them to follow along and "get" the story VS giving too much or irrelevant info. I can tell they don't get the story from my observation of them, but not what went wrong and how I can do it smoothly. So usually I am afraid to tell stories and rely on short witty remarks based on what other people say. I would like to be able to tell great stories.

And when trying to understand people, I'm afraid to ask questions about these "subcommunications", b/c then it would be like I'm admitting to them that I'm socially unintelligent and I'm trying too hard to gain rapport.

Also, I have trouble keeping up with my own thoughts!

simpcore wrote:

Me: (seeing as he looked alright and wanting to finish the convo b/c I thought he was busy, I didn't ask him if he was okay... But then I say...) Wow! You know I got a new radio system for my car today. (What? That just felt like I was trying to force rapport, and his story was way more interesting)

He: I see.

Me: (that was awkward!) Okay, I'll talk to you later.

My attempt at mind-reading this is that he was focused on himself and something that happened to him. Suddenly changing the subject to yourself and something that happened to you was thus a huge mismatch that jostled him out of his state, costing you rapport.

(Another possibility is that he was expecting some sympathy and was discouraged that he didn't get any.)

And when trying to understand people, I'm afraid to ask questions about these "subcommunications", b/c then it would be like I'm admitting to them that I'm socially unintelligent and I'm trying too hard to gain rapport.

Yeah, well, a lot of people are just sitting there trying to think of something interesting to say about themselves. Try involving them in the conversation. "What would you have thought/done about that?" "Has anything like that ever happened to you?" Or, if you know enough about them to know about a similar story of theirs, you could say, "That reminds me of the time you said you/someone did X...."

Steve if your getting feedback like this in such numbers your affirmation should already be affirmed. Keep doing whatever it is you do it obviously works. Well done.

Steve A,

Something I notice is that your last post seems to me to be a slightly different problem to the one originally posted, which is fine. You might be getting closer to the real problem, in that case.

In your example of a recent interaction you seem to be very concerned with how you come across to the other person. So that's not about you wanting anything.

It’s interesting that you also mention you sometimes get more enjoyment out of watching people on TV. That might be because you don't have to worry about what people on TV think of you?

So maybe concentrate less on what they think about you, and more about what you think about them?

I mention this because it’s sometimes my model, and is how I interact with others. I'm learning to worry less about people's opinions of me, and through doing that I'm enjoying them more. Then rapport comes naturally.

(This might be wrong for you of course. Feel free to disregard!)

Steve M

Steve A,

I want to enjoy socializing, relating, connecting with others without them relating back to me, or validating me, giving me friendship, or whatever else that I'd enjoy apart from the relationship itself.

At my local cinema you can buy your ticket and then walk into the corridor where all the doors to the actual movies are just numbered. Apart from the occasional display to show what movies are coming to the cinema in the future the rooms are just defined by their numbers. Entering a convesation with random people and not expecting anything back would be to pay for your cinema ticket and then walk into a different room and sit at a movie decided at random. Give yourself and your judgement a few hours off and enjoy whatever is put on for your. You may be in an 'action' mood but may spend the next few hours watching someone cry over a lost lover. There is little chance you will get what you expected but you will almost always get what you needed. A random coversation in which you let flow (unless you have something specific to talk about) will give you what you want (I want to enjoy socializing, relating, connecting with others) if you are looking for nothing specific through its content.

You can contribute to a great conversation just by listening, if it becomes silent for a few seconds without anyone feeling awkward then that is a sign that you are both comfortable with the way it is going. Churning out sentence after sentence just to fill the air does not really add to a conversation. Retired people are experts at this, telling stories about a friend of their sons dentists holiday, as if it were theirs, anything to fill their long days up. I went through a stage where people in general used to bug and bore me and it took me about a year to realise that the world still revolved without me taking part in it, withdrawing myself only punished me and made other people sad for me. People do not want to be led into converations by you nor be distracted from their lives by your rehearsed lines. Be yourself in a conversation, be proud of your quirks and faults as they are a significant part of you. If you make friends or personal relationships then you want them to accept your faults also. Every group of genuine friends are made up of varying personality types and the stranger you are the more interesting you become. Dont become a performing seal for people as you will become false and insincere, let the true you shine and be prepared to evolve yourself as you learn from new situations. False and insincere people tend to attract and feel comfortable with false and insincere people, is that where you want to end up?

What has changed for me? If I look to see just how boring and annoying people are then I tend to see a bunch of boring and annoying people. If I sit with the same group of people and look for the wonderful uniqueness of each indivdividual then I can see a group where I can have interesting conversations and learn so much. Let me share an example with you. I became a father for the first time about 5 weeks ago and to date I find too many retired people used to corner me talk at me, but now I ask them about their kids, where did they go on holiday when their had young kids, what did they do when x or y happened? etc... These people who I one thought were coffin dodging borefests are in fact a source of fascinating information.

Me not finding them interesting was more about me than them.

Thanks,

Matt

I'm learning to worry less about people's opinions of me, and through doing that I'm enjoying them more. Then rapport comes naturally.

Wonderfully put. Even if people are not liking what you say they will appreciate they are talking to a person who shows them respect by listening with an open mind. They dont have to like what you are saying to respect you and become a friend.