Hello,

I'm really interested in the language of 'Cause & Effect' in NLP, that is choosing to own my feelings rather than blaming others.

For example, I sometimes say that a person ''made'' me upset or angry. However, with NLP we're encouraged to say that we choose our feelings. This is very empowering because it supposes that we are then free to change the feeling if we don't like it. Wonderful, in theory!

However, even though I’d like to be in charge of my feelings, I often choose the short term advantages of victim thinking, and use the old language patterns.

Can anyone suggest some good NLP techniques for reminding myself to own my feelings. Maybe some good language patterns or anchors, or anything that's been useful for you. Or is it more a question of examining beliefs?

Many thanks

Steve

You are aware when you have used "Old" language patterns? That puts you ahead of most people so well done. Whether there's anything you need to do beyond practice and continued awareness I'm not so sure. In taking the time to spot your own language patterns and work to change them you practice a skill you can also use with others.

Enlightenment Steve wrote:

However, even though I’d like to be in charge of my feelings, I often choose the short term advantages of victim thinking, and use the old language patterns.

What does "Being a Victim" do for you?

John

Ignorance more frequently begets confidence than does knowledge does

z8000783 wrote:

What does "Being a Victim" do for you?

John

Ignorance more frequently begets confidence than does knowledge does

Excellant question.

Its interesting that as soon as I read your question I knew the answer, but I hadn't thought about it before.

Being a victim reinforces my belief that I'm a good person! Because I think I grew up seeing victims as the goodies and bullies as the baddies.

Fascinating, and thanks for asking it.

Victim can be a powerful position to be in. If you are a victim then any retort or response is justifiable

Enlightenment Steve wrote:

Being a victim reinforces my belief that I'm a good person! Because I think I grew up seeing victims as the goodies and bullies as the baddies

Is there anything about being a victim that limits you in anyway?

John

Let us not look back in anger nor forward in fear but around in awareness

DerekB wrote:

Victim can be a powerful position to be in. If you are a victim then any retort or response is justifiable

But getting out of the position once you have adopted it may not be so easy.

wonderful wrote:

But getting out of the position once you have adopted it may not be so easy.

True and awareness of what you are doing is potentially a powerful ally in changing that

z8000783 wrote:

Is there anything about being a victim that limits you in anyway?

John

Well, certainly the term 'victim' implies passive, out of control. So very limiting yes.

But I suppose I focus on the benefits of being a victim, in this sense. The reinforcement of my belief that I'm a good person. The thing is, I also belive I'm a strong assertive person, so there's a bit of a contradiction there.

Hi Steve,

The next time you feel in 'victim mode', make a list of the familiar old language patterns as they come to you.

Take a long look at the specific language used in those patterns.

Are there any seemingly definitive words that rule out your participation, eg, "can't"; "always"; "never"?

What happens if you change or add certain words in order to allow the consideration of personal involvement in the process? Remember, the past doesn't equal the future.

For instance: "{x} always happens so there's no point in trying" -> "{x} is a possibility if I do what I've been doing until now"

You can already spot the old patterns when they occur. That's the perfect time to remind yourself that they are old patterns, and the present is yours to consider

The thing about taking up the victim role is that by default you will create a reality where there are heros and villans. So when you become the victim who are the heros and the villans?

I'll like Michael neill's take on this where after looking at a situation as a victim, just for fun see what happens if you look at the situation as truely the 'creator' of your own experience!

Enlightenment Steve wrote:

Can anyone suggest some good NLP techniques for reminding myself to own my feelings. Maybe some good language patterns or anchors, or anything that's been useful for you. Or is it more a question of examining beliefs?

Forget the paint-by-numbers stuff. This is a belief issue, and working at that level (or, borrowing from Dilts' Neuro-logical levels model, a "higher" level than that) will get you what you want.

John has already helped you to find your reason for not-yet-changing. You seem to me to have indicated that you don't think it's a very good reason, and I'm inclined to agree with you.

I learned to own my feelings when I realized what feelings are. They are not orders to be obeyed, but information to be noted. Messages from the other-than-conscious mind. Anger, for example, is a signal that one of your boundaries has been violated. Feel angry? Check which boundary has been violated. Is it legitimate? If yes, respond appropriately; if not, maybe you have a boundary that doesn't work for you anymore.

Of course, the best time to learn to do that is before you need to actually do it, so mentally rehearse the process for yourself. If there's a situation you know you'll soon be in and you know it's gonna piss you off, step through it mentally at a slower rate, and interrupt it after you notice the anger.

It's also a good idea to do the same with stuff that's already happened. Go back through it and figure out what you missed the first time.

Doing this, either with anticipated stuff or remembered stuff, is a lot easier if you're skilled at changing your perceptual position. Do you know what I mean by that?

Now, in regards to victimhood... if you can find a copy of Why Me? Why This? Why Now? by Robin Norwood, get it and read it. It's the book that made sense of reincarnation for me. (I'm not asking you to believe in reincarnation, but to try on some of the beliefs that go with it. For me, it changed absolutely everything.)

Hi Michael,

Thanks for this, some great points there. I'll definitely seek out the book. I like a bit of reincarnation talk as well, so that's an added bonus!

Quick question. I'm not quite sure, from an NLP or psychological perspective what is mean by ''boundaries'' and how these can be violated.

Thanks again to all, this thread's been really helpful.

Steve

Enlightenment Steve wrote:

Quick question. I'm not quite sure, from an NLP or psychological perspective what is mean by ''boundaries'' and how these can be violated.

A boundary, in any context, is the limit of something.

Your "personal boundaries" are your limits on others' mistreatment of you. For example, one of mine is that you can yell at me, insult me, etc., but you can't hit me. If you hit me, I don't have to be nice anymore.

They may be contextual, too. If I'm feeling ill, tired, or in pain, I don't tolerate much yelling or insulting, either.

Thanks Michael.

It’s interesting what you say about boundaries. This led me to read up a bit more about the definition on the internet- where I came across the idea of unclear or fuzzy boundaries. An example of this is where a person can sometimes 'feel' another's emotions, or believe they are responsible for them. This works both ways so that a person can also believe other people are responsible for their feelings.

Have people heard of this idea before? To me, it is the same as the ''At Effect' model in NLP.

So to me, the obvious answer to help with getting to be ''At Cause'' is to work on making my boundaries clearer. I've found lots of advice for me on the internet, too including some good work from Steve Andreas.

Thanks again for everyone's help.

Steve

Enlightenment Steve wrote:

So to me, the obvious answer to help with getting to be ''At Cause'' is to work on making my boundaries clearer.

To yourself, especially. That way, you can determine of any of your rules are weird. [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9pQii1L8fGk"]Like this guy's[/ame].