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Discussion: Was Economic Downturn Deliberatly Created
  1. Nicky1's Picture

    nicky walters has 55 reputation points

    Posted: 3rd Jul 09, 11:55 am offline

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    Was Economic Downturn Deliberatly Created

    I have had some interesting conversations with many people.

    1) Was the economic downturn created and if so how and why?



    2) What steps can we take to ensure that it doesnot effect us?

    3) How could i use NLP to minimis the fear and paranoia of the economy when I am assisting my clients choose properties?

  2. Steve_W's Picture

    Stephen Woolston has 791 reputation points

    Posted: 3rd Jul 09, 12:05 pm offline

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    Quote Nicky1 wrote: View Post
    How could i use NLP to minimis the fear and paranoia of the economy when I am assisting my clients choose properties?
    LOL! Who's fear and paranoia?

    Suggestion: by doing something other than planting the thought that it might have been created deliberately? (I presume you mean in the sense of a conspiracy.)

    Cheers


  3. Redsimo's Picture

    Matt Sims has 1353 reputation points

    Posted: 3rd Jul 09, 12:21 pm offline

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    Re: Was Economic Downturn Deliberatly Created

    Maybe it was and maybe it was not, either way it does not change how we manage ourselves on a daily basis. Sure there are people who are profiting from it, if you are helping people choose properties then maybe tell them that buying now rather then when the economy is back on its feet will mean they get it as a 20% less cost that what it will be when the market is strong again, in a strong market the interest rates will also be higher. If the property needs work to be done to it then not is the time to haggle with tradesmen as they are desperate for work.

    There is a time to buy and a time to sell, now is most certainly the time to buy.

  4. southnick's Picture

    Nick Haynes has 978 reputation points

    Posted: 3rd Jul 09, 04:05 pm offline

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    Re: Was Economic Downturn Deliberatly Created

    I think emotion may have had an effect on the timing but what goes up, must come down eventually.

    All you can hope for is to land somewhere soft.


  5. Nicky1's Picture

    nicky walters has 55 reputation points

    Posted: 6th Jul 09, 06:38 am offline

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    Re: Was Economic Downturn Deliberatly Created

    Thank you

    steven: LOL! Who's fear and paranoia?

    Matt: Thank you for your insight, and I have incorporated it in to my language, thank you.

    Nick: Thank you, excellent metophor

  6. StevenGoodall's Picture

    steven goodall has 199 reputation points

    Posted: 8th Jul 09, 02:24 pm offline

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    I have been thinking that this may be the case myself. Only I don't think it has been created by anyone for personal gain. If I'm right (and I'm not convinced I am) then the economic downturn is a stroke of genius that could very well help save the world!

    Think about it in the context of global warming. How can we stop people flying so much? how can we stop big industrys from producing so much and poluting the atmosphere? How can we make people start to worry about how much energy they are using and how can we stop as many people driving their cars to work.

    Answer: economic downturn

  7. Andy B.'s Picture

    Andrew Bradbury has 857 reputation points

    Posted: 10th Jul 09, 09:19 am online now

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    Nicky

    In my ever so 'umble opinion - not a chance. It was down to pure greed and a mentality focused totally on today with not an ounce of thought for the future.

    The crash wasn't planned - it was just inevitable.

    FWIW, this is my take on what happened:

    1. Financial companies (the directors of financial companies) were promoting profits by offering ludicrously large bonuses (ludicrously large for the people on the receiving end) to people who could generate huge amounts of business. Those whio couldn't meet the ever-rising targets were uncerimoniously booted.

    2. A series of dubious financial schemes were being dreamed up, (especially in America), which were based on the desire to maximise business so as to create bigger profits and bonuses.

    3. The biggest expense in anyone's life is likely to be a property purchase. Far bigger and (theoretically, as it turned out) more stable than stocks and shares were bricks and mortar.
    The more property purchases could be generated, the more money went into the profits and bonuses pot. BUT

    4. Even when offering mortgages of over 100%, there is still a limit on the number of properties available, and the number of purchasers. In other words, the amount of money itself was limited. In theory.

    5. So, as the mortgage business rocketed towards the "real world" limit, some bright spark invented a way to 'create money'. And at that point a crash became inevitable.

    6. How to create money from nothing
    Take something that is worth $1 and sell it for $2. Bingo - you just created $1.
    Notice I said "something that is worth $1", NOT "something that cost $1". If it cost $1 it might still be genuinely worth $2. So you can legitimately sell it for $2. But if something is only worth $1 and you sell it for $2 then the extra $1 only exists as part of the value as long as nobody asks "What is this really worth?"

    (I know this is all nominalisations. And that's part of why the whole thing 'worked'.)

    7. So, mortgage dealers started 'bundling' mortgages - crap mortgages and healthy mortgages (those that were unlikely to be repayed and those that were virtually guaranteed) all in one 'bundle' - and selling them on AS IF the presence of the few good mortgages would somehow purify the crap.

    In practise, more and more crap mortgages were being generated by bad selling strategies, so the bundles steadily included more and more rubbish items to each good item, because the bundles were constantly being repackaged to distribute a fairly even number of high risks items per low-risk item. Or to put it another way, more and more chances to lose money to each chance to make money. And yet these bundles were effectively being treated as though they WERE money!

    Banks, etc. were listing their 'bundles' in their assets as though they had every chance of selling each bundle at the best possible price. The crash came when people started asking - "What are they actually worth?"

    This situation is said to be "incredibly complex", but the only complexity is in the content - the mathematical formulae which supposedly explained how everything would come good in the end.
    The actual process, like all the most effective scams, was very simple.

    Likewise the plea that people involved in this situation didn't/don't really understand what was going on is pure BS. They knew/know perfectly well that you don't get something for nothing just because the sums are incredibly complicated.

    The 'conspiracy', if there was one, is that thousands of people in financial businesses agreed to keep playing a game that could only end in self-destruction, for the sake of the huge profits/bonus being made as long as the game lasted.

    8. A further hidden agenda exists amongst the people who should be controlling this situation. Many of them are looking ahead to the salaries they will be earning when, as their political/civil service careers end, they get places on the Boards of the very financial institutions they should be regulating now.

    If they did what they should do to serve the best interests of the majority of the people they'd have to kiss those future plans goodbye. So as we see the beginnings of the same thing happening all over again - at least you'll have some idea why.

    JMO

    Be well

    Andy B.
    Last edited by Andy B.; 10th Jul 09 at 09:33 am.

    http://www.bradburyac.mistral.co.uk/

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