Can a Zero Tollerance stance ever be taken on any subject for any person?

What does Zero Tollerance mean to you? Do you have any examples of when this policy has helped, or indeed caused more problems?

On which issues should or could a Zero Tollerance policy work and in which situations should this stance be taken?

I have been tasked with the role of delivering an assembly to my school with the idea of encouraging more cooperation and smoothing over areas of friction in my school. We are a big school in a rural area and many of our social issues are many years behind what goes on in inner city schools. An influx of eastern European workers and their children to the area which has caused immense friction between students. Homophobic and racist behaviour is enforced throughout generations of rural life, the school is now revitalising its Zero Tollerance policy on such subjects.


I would love to hear any views, opinions or past examples people have gone through that may help me to help them.

Many thanks,

Matt

Redsimo wrote:

Can a Zero Tollerance stance ever be taken on any subject for any person?

Randy Cassingham has been ranting about this for years.

Zero Tolerance equals Zero Intelligence. It's a substitute for thought, or, put another way, institutionalized prejudice.

Redsimo wrote:

Can a Zero Tollerance stance ever be taken on any subject for any person?

What does Zero Tollerance mean to you? Do you have any examples of when this policy has helped, or indeed caused more problems?

On which issues should or could a Zero Tollerance policy work and in which situations should this stance be taken?

I have been tasked with the role of delivering an assembly to my school with the idea of encouraging more cooperation and smoothing over areas of friction in my school. We are a big school in a rural area and many of our social issues are many years behind what goes on in inner city schools. An influx of eastern European workers and their children to the area which has caused immense friction between students. Homophobic and racist behaviour is enforced throughout generations of rural life, the school is now revitalising its Zero Tollerance policy on such subjects.


I would love to hear any views, opinions or past examples people have gone through that may help me to help them.

Many thanks,

Matt

Matt,

I am more in favour of education and information rather than zero tollerance. Have the offenders walk in the shoes of the people they are prejudiced against.

Check out Jane Elliot's site might give you some food for thought. Jane Elliott's Blue Eyes/Brown Eyes Exercise

Jason

Hi Matt, I like your approach, because it says that you care about the rights and freedom of othet. let me offer you some alternatives, which is intergration and education.

It would me sensible for you to promote ethinic diveristy by firstly creating events where your students can learn about the culture and the customs. It is also sensible to get you students to write reports and maybe get an award for the best one.

The report should aim to get the student to relflect on such issues and also get them to research about the given subject.

such as "Does homosexuality have an a place in our society" or "What are the positives of ethnic intergration".

Get educated and reflective conversations moving and don't make extreme choices.

Promote educated communication on such matters and allow for the students to develop their own from their learning.

Rural areas have a tendancy to have build social and emotional systems where culture change is not easy. So allow for your knowledge to educate parents aswell, dont always expect them to understand.

Zero tolerance should be used to protect the high potential risk of harm to an individual, but in my oppinion with the right social education, this should never have to be an option.

Matt our friends on this NLP site are very socially intelligent so share your ideas with us on what your desired outcome is and I am sure together that we will come up with a suitable soultion for you.

REMEMBER: People are people, whether they are black, white, gay, english french or indian, somali.

Many thanks to all, here is what I am working on so far.

Sell the idea of 'Zero Tolerance' as being a policy that benefits us all and getting the students to focus from the perspective of the victim/person who benefits from a zero tolerance approach. Then once they have embraced the idea I can use their support to build upon.


I have asked a random selection of students to think about what things they do not want in their lives, things that they will not tolerate, things where they have a zero tolerance opinion.

"I will not tolerate violence towards me"
"I will not tollerate being sworn at"
"I will not tolerate people invading my personal space without permission"

etc etc

They have had some great ideas, much more varied than I would have come up with. The kids have now made posters based on their ideas and I have taken a 10 second video of them holding their posters while looking very glum. I was thinking of making them all into a movie along with a song such as 'Where is the love' from the Black Eyes Peas.

Putting the idea that Zero tolerance as being a positive thing (my opinion does not matter here, I am just representing the schools policy) and that it allows us all to live without these horrible things in our daily lives.

This would then make them show more empathy to questions based such as..

Our peers should not have to tolerate.........

My classmates should not have to tolerate........

Our teachers should not have to tolerate...........

Our community should not tolerate.........

My enemies should not have to tolerate..........

These are my preliminary ideas, I would love to hear more from you all,

Thanks

Matt

Using these direct embedded commands will get the result of starting them to think about ways and arguments to stick up for this idea you are creating, so matt, what is the desired outcome. When students start comming to you and saying well I don't like him because of his colour or my dad says gays are against god etc. What is the the argument.

I had a client who suffered with racist tendencies, he had been to prison for assult against an asian who asked him to leave the shop because of his harsh abuse.

My clients father lived in a rural area in Wales and his grandfather was in wars against many ethinic people and also had black slaves. These people were on his fathers side. His mother was a shop assistant in the small village and had no formed oppinon on the subject.

My client I will call James, was beaten as a child by his father and was constantly shouted down by him, so he seen him as the only authority figure in his life, him and hittler as he was reading his book while he was consulting with me.

In a conversation with him he explained to me, quite conviningly why ethnic people are dangerous. and now they were entering his village.

I realised that he wanted more control in his life.

He was making choices that were saying to his father that I love you and I NEED you to love me. He was working with only the knowledge he knew to be "true"

I explained to him that firstly to find out what he wanted, and he wanted so much. so I took little achievable steps with him to build up TRUST and Commitment.

Entertained him with stories of my adventures with my colleage friends and build up conquests and metophors to him what me and my friends had done and achieved. How much fun we had, how relaxed together we were, how much care we had for each other.

Then I used him in the stories by including him. Such as you should have been their, and you are sorry you missed it etc.

Then a few weeks later I showed him a picture of all the people we had build as the foundation of our relationship on, all black and asian, all people just like you and me.

He first was shocked and responded with his feelings, so after he calmed down and pointed out all the little steps he have achieved and then asked him to come out and celibrate.

I took him to a nice relaxed restraunt where his friends met us and I left him. I left embedded commands to contunue his learning and I am so happy WE became friends, a phrase I used a great deal while we were in session.

A few months later, I was very shocked, I got a call from him, he was really happy and full of life, he moved from his home to a city and was learning art. He had found himself an educated anglo-chinese girlfriend, who was fun, energetic and full of life and studying history in london university. He called me to refer his father to me, who had a nervous break down.

You have the chance to give something special to the world, you have the develping future in your hands. Trust youself and use your special gifts as the wise did.

Redsimo wrote:

Many thanks to all, here is what I am working on so far.

Sell the idea of 'Zero Tolerance' as being a policy that benefits us all and getting the students to focus from the perspective of the victim/person who benefits from a zero tolerance approach. Then once they have embraced the idea I can use their support to build upon.


I have asked a random selection of students to think about what things they do not want in their lives, things that they will not tolerate, things where they have a zero tolerance opinion.

"I will not tolerate violence towards me"
"I will not tollerate being sworn at"
"I will not tolerate people invading my personal space without permission"

etc etc

They have had some great ideas, much more varied than I would have come up with. The kids have now made posters based on their ideas and I have taken a 10 second video of them holding their posters while looking very glum. I was thinking of making them all into a movie along with a song such as 'Where is the love' from the Black Eyes Peas.

Putting the idea that Zero tolerance as being a positive thing (my opinion does not matter here, I am just representing the schools policy) and that it allows us all to live without these horrible things in our daily lives.

This would then make them show more empathy to questions based such as..

Our peers should not have to tolerate.........

My classmates should not have to tolerate........

Our teachers should not have to tolerate...........

Our community should not tolerate.........

My enemies should not have to tolerate..........

These are my preliminary ideas, I would love to hear more from you all,

Thanks

Matt

How about having the students develop their own charter and state the charter as rights and responsibilities e.g. I have the right to not be bullied at school. I have the responsibility to be polite...

Engage them in the development process and they will take ownership for it.

Jason

One effect of zero tolerance is to create a line which children will just want to explore and step over...red flag to a bull...it is their nature to be curious. But what to do.
My experience is that children really do model their adults in this ....at a young age children have no idea what 'gay 'or 'Paki' really means(they naturally form crosscultural friendships). But they have discovered that these words have power. And so pragmatically they become weapons in the arsenal needed for the jungle -like environment acted out daily in the classroom, where one millimetre of desk space represents a personal boundary of overwhelming importance..........Yup it really is a tough issue .....

I think to work with the parents , getting them to mix and become integrated with extra school activities ....but who organises this? the overworked teacher who is already organising ecology days bicycle days and events to get funding for anything from playground equipment to school councelors.

Working with the community does make a difference, particularly when schools seem to be one of the only remaining institutions that can truelly unite a community but it requires hard work

Zero tolerance on intolerance is an interesting idea. Can we make people more respectful towards others by us not respecting their own beliefs / choices?

Probably.

It's a complicated issue though, because the whole thing is predicated on us knowing what's "right", and asking/cajoling/forcing others to think/behave the same.

Does the majority have the right to impose "acceptable standards" on others? Sure - that's what laws are; that's how society is structured. Schools too. Kids are there to be imposed on, but it's important to be honest about what you're doing.

So I think your question is really about how to effectively build a progressive social movement, albeit one in the microcosm of a school, and that's a very interesting question. I think NLP has been over-used in personal development, sales and seduction; it's much under-used in building and developing communities. That's one of the areas I'm very interested in.

Most teachers are going to want fast, short term and measurable results. They basically want less kids to be picked on in the playground.

But what if that means other kids build up resentment for years and aged 22 become a nail bomber, targetting the people they weren't allowed to call names?

How can you know if your strategy is going to be good in the long term, or if narrowing people's freedom of expression will eventually create a bottle neck that increases pressure - until one day it pops.

I like the idea of...

Our peers should not have to tolerate.........

My classmates should not have to tolerate........

Our teachers should not have to tolerate...........

Our community should not tolerate.........

My enemies should not have to tolerate..........

"Should not have to tolerate" feels to me much more powerful than "will not tolerate". Also more meaningful than "rights and responsibilities".

How come you shift between my/our?

I'd look at it this way. If the kids already have the beliefs and values you want them to have, what else needs to be there for them to stay true to those beliefs and values?

(I think it's a lot about strengthening their sense of individual identity, confidence and willingness to be relaxed about peer/financial/other pressures.)

And if they don't have the beliefs and values you want them to have, what's the best way to change beliefs and values in a congruent, lasting way?

Kids are easy to influence. Just ask the tobacco companies.

There's a lot to be said for making prejudice seem uncool.

Just a few thoughts to start with.

Maybe you should be asking the students what they see as zero tollerance. There are lots of incidences in history where zero tollerance has lead to genocide.

I am very much in favour of a rights and responsabilities aproach to the problems of ethnic integration. This means that the immigrant or migrant has clear responsabilities as well as rights. such as the responsability to learn the language of the country they are living in and the laws we live by.

Many of our young people struggle to survive in a sysem that has developed in such a way as to respond to those with clear problems caused by ethnicity and English being a second language. Some people see themselves as being second class citizens because others seem to get extra help within the system simply because of their ethnicity. This naturaly causes resentment, resentment can cause barriers to integration. On the other end of the scale young people are naturaly curious and explorative. The School should make use of this facility in their students.

During the 1950s both Hungarian and Polish refugees came to Britain. My school had quite an influx of new students and they were immediately paired with a boy or girl in their own class who showed them what to do, where to go etc, kept them company at breaks and lunch and introduced them to their freinds, many of them had no English when they first arrived. The English student had the responsability to care for the incomer and make sure they integrated, the teacher made sure they understood that responsability and carried it out. Woe betide any of them that neglected that duty being upbraided by a teacher was not amusing when done in front of the whole class. Americans call this system Buddying.

The school has a duty to set up a welcoming system and teach responsability Zero Tollerance from an authoritarian stand point, to me, smacks of big brother stamping his foot. How is that any better than a child simply repeating what it has heard from others, and fighting to maintain its own rights which it percieves to be eroded by a further demand on stretched recources. What is needed is understanding and that comes from getting to know someone.

I suggest that before the assembly students are paired with a buddy and have to get to know them so that they can introduce them to a larger group. They should be asked to find out about Key points such as where they come from , (Maps would be usefull) What brothers and sisters they have and be able to pronounce each others names properly they should be able to give at least a two minute presentation to a wider group (both ways). if there are not enough immigrants to pair each indiginous child there could be a play about racial intollerance and the fear it generates. You may find that many of the children have had experience of being bullied and can use that in the play.

Great posts guys and gals.

I love the idea of "i will not tolerate ..... " with "I enjoy.......... "(put something is re-worded from " my responsibilities are............." just to enphasis it is a choice. I have collected all the video clips I wanted to use but I do like the idea of the kids rotating their boards and having a positive message on the back. Many, many thanks.

The irony of trying to install tolerance by with a zero tollerance system is not lost on me, I have fought for us to trial a Restorative Justice system in the school which I am hoping will make for a positive replacement for our reactive disciplinary system. Only this year a Head Teacher got an OBE for his services to education, in his first week at one of his schools he suspended 300 children for minor offences. The only judgement made on this approach was that overall the GCSE grades for that school went up. No mention has been made whether it was a mode, mean or median average that went up.

If you leave a bunch of kids with a pile of sports equipment or toys then when left alone with the kit they will create their own rules on how to use the equipment and what each kid must do in order to be accepted and play. I believe that kids like rules, they know where they stand and they know what they need to do if they want to impress someone. Take a kid into a social situation where they do not know what the rules of behavior are and they will not look to cause a spectacle. Kids in school live in a protected environment where physical assult is the most likely action to cause them to end up is serious trouble. Most are smart enough to not cross that line and so verbal threats and insults are the main weapon of choice. I guess our desire is to achieve two things, 1 to help children to understand the world with sufficient knowledge that they do not feel threatened by people who are different to them. 2 Even if you really dont like specific people then you still need to show appropriate behaviour and be a positive member of your community.

It may be worth me pointing out that they Zero Tolerance policy is supported by some very tactful staff members. A child is always asked to share their reasoning and justify their comments and behaviour. Unlike the claims in the link earlier in this thread there is common sense applied. For example, one chap was looking at careers in the army and the recruitment website showed an Asian looking chap in ranks with other white soldiers. The student (14 years old) stated "They shouldnt let the Taliban into the British Army, he is probably a suicide bomber". Of couse 10 minutes later his understanding of the facts behind his comments were very different. Education is the number one tool in use.

Chris, I share your concerns about which long term strategies actually do help to shape well informed opinion over the longer term, if I was looking for a man to front such a research project them you would get my vote. I showed some of the kids some of the different maps that were linked to from this site a few weeks ago and they were speachless to think that the world could exist without them being at the centre.

Please keep your ideas coming, you are making a very positive contribution to some lovely kids lives.

Thanks

Matt