Hello gang,

Some heuristics for my own selfish learning.

I've read and seen quite a lot of the amazing free stuff James Lavers has produced over the last couple of years, (I'm yet to sign up to one of his programmes), but I recently stumbled across Dan Bradbury.

Anyone know his form and products?

Who would you choose, if you had to, between JL & DB as a marketer aimed specifically to grow your coaching/therapy business?

Love to hear your pearls o' wisdom, I still have much to learn about marketing.

Love to you all,

Al

Neither

Thanks for the enlightening Ben!

;-)

Hey Al!

You may not need to choose soon ;-)

J.

P.S. Nice one Ben -- don't let nobody pull the ol' False Dichotomy on ya'...

...There's always Bernadette Doyle...Michael Port...Hannah McNamarra...and the list goes on!

lol, funny JL. I *nearly* emailed you as a heads up
- but then considered it foul play...

;-)

One questions tho' James and yeah of course you're biased, but what's been your most successful (for your clients) programmes?
And I'm talking about *everyday* type guys, coaches n therapists, as opposed to the high rollers like Jamie & PMc..

I ask as you've run a *lot* of programmes, and they all look pretty fine, though I'm wondering how much, if any crossover there is int he content.

P.S. loved that last vid of you walking in fields - hit my meta programs bang on.
What I like about you James, is that you know and use a truckload of NLP, Persuasion etc, so it gives a comforting impression that you understand the core business and mindsets etc of your target clients.

PS in the name of fairness, I'd love to hear from Dan or ex/existing clients of his too.

Al

I think it's a bit like losing weight. Some people will tell you to eat less. Some will tell you to exercise more. Some will sell you the latest miracle pills. What's "best" really depends on what you're looking for.

My take is pretty simple. The #1 reason why most coaches don't make money is they're not good coaches. I say the same to everyone - you need about 20 clients to start with, and then you need to be good at your job. Anyone can get 20 clients if it's important enough to them. Ask your postman, hang out at the hairdressers, talk to people at the gym. Find your old schoolfriends on Facebook, get talking to people at your mate's wedding, talk to the lonely-looking woman on the bus. If you're persuasive, people will give you a go. If you turn out to be useful, they'll tell their friends. Then you never need to market again.

I don't get why people over-complicate this so much.

I ‘kinda’ agree Chris...it is overcomplicated by many...and oversimplified my many too...

The whole “if you wanna make money as a coach...be a better coach” thing is a Michael Neil’ism...and in principle I like the propulsion in it.

But I believe it’s too simple to be useful beyond a ‘nice idea’...
...and too elusive – especially if it comes from a ‘big name’ – to prevent some poor people from thinking it’s a sign to empty their savings account in pursuit of the ‘secrets’ from their favourite guru.

The fact remains that there are a tonne of folk who are really good at doing what they do...but they’re still having problems making the mortgage payments.

Telling them folks to just ‘get better’ misses one of the main reasons we’re all here (I’ll get to that in a minute)

“If you’re persuasive people will give you a go” well, that seems like a bit of a disconnect – I mean – I thought if I’m a better coach I’ll get more clients...jeez I gotta persuade people into working with me??

Likewise – I can get 20 clients if it’s important enough to me? At what cost??


Now. I don’t bring all this up for the sakes of argument with Chris’ point, which, in general I think’s pretty sound.

But the stuff good coaches take for granted usually hides the implicit ‘genius’ behind their financial success as a coach...

...that’s what NLP helps us discover isn’t it?

The patterns.

The strategies.

The model.

See I believe that there are good coaches who earn a lot of money and have lots of clients.

And I know of some ‘ok’ coaches who also earn alot of money and have lots of clients.

The money-making client-getting bit has a structure that can be modelled, there are strategies and patterns that can accelerate the process ...heck – so you don’t have to go bother the old lady at the bus stop or try and persuade your mates at a wedding (when you should be having a good time anyhow...this ain’t Forever Living afterall right?)

Some of the really good coaches know this implicitly – these are usually the sort who say “dude...just be a better coach”...

...but rarely is that ALL that’s going on.

And that’s when we should be acutely aware of what else is going on.

Isn’t that one of the main draws of NLP?

Tis to me.

I think many of us 'marketing experts' are attempting with varying degrees of success - to pass on some of the strategies...the patterns...the models.


J.

Thanks for this info JL - as usual insightful 'n generous!

When Michael Neill says becoming a better coach is the best way to make more money as a coach, that's not only because it's the easiest and most fun way, (which I think is important), but also because it's about delivering better value for money.

It's about moving beyond "how can I get more xyz?" and into "what do I want to create in the world?".

I think that's a nicer approach. It makes it so making money isn't a chore but instead becomes an inevitable result of living your dream.

There's certainly a lot you can learn from marketing gurus, like James. Back in the dim and distant past, I was one of the very first people to advertise on Google - before Adwords, in the days when you had to go into their office and negotiate a deal. That was a good example for me in how even the smallest changes can lead to dramatic results. We were spending about £5,000 a day on advertising back then and whether we made a profit or a loss could come down to something as simple as whether we ran two separate sentences or joined them together with an "and" in the middle. It's mindblowing - and well worth learning about.

The fonts you use in your marketing, the colours, the devices you use to grab and direct attention... they can all make or break your business, at least in the short term.

But always remember - as a coach, you aint selling soap powder. There's only one of you. And if you connect with what you really want to say, you'll probably say it better than anyone else. And sometimes you'll say it best when you throw out the rulebook.

Works for me anyway.

lol @ soap powder..

;-)

Can I have links to Bradbury AND Lavers please?

James Lavers | Distance Persuasion

Home

There are a lot of skeptics out there arent there James!

Personally I think it's different strokes for different folks, its a question of what you're outcomes are...

And thats why us 'marketers' give away free stuff, so you can check us out and decide for yourself whether you want to learn more, or find someone else.

I obviously think my stuff is cool (but then I would!), however I'm also a big fan of James' material (I recently had him speak for my mastermind group) and its well worth checking out.

All the best

Dan

Thanks Dan!

Hey guys.

I'm confused. Is Al working with you guys to promote something that's about to happen between the two of you?

It reminds me of those adverts for Bulmers and Magners cider. A couple of years ago they started making adverts and competing against eachother on TV. There was always that debate in the pub. Bulmers or Magners, which one do you drink? Turns out they're owned by the same people and their marketing strategy was to figh eachother to create a division and thus, loyal customers.

It worked to an extent and people really did take sides. I was lucky since I mostly drink lager.

Maybe I'm wrong. Perhaps Al was just asking out of curiosity.

Jamie

Nah Jamie, I skipped that install ;-) and went for the 'celebrity deathmatchmaker' instead.
:P
I was rather hoping people with first hand exp. of the guys would a do a little show n tell. hey ho!
Hope you're well Jamie!

Al,

For nuts and bolts internet marketing James Lavers stuff has floored me after a mere afternoon of being exposed to his stuff... and applied virtually all that he shared in minutes (pat on the back for me in that regards!)

No comment on Bradbury.

Regards,

Hey Robert, nice to read your stuff again. As ever it's balanced and considered. Thanks, that was just what I was looking for - CHEERS!

Al

I think people "buy" people, some connect in whatever way with one type of teacher but not another, but most people can sniff out a mile away those who don't walk their talk and for me that would be a deciding factor, whether you are a coach or marketer

Just as long as we all remember, making money with NLP is evil and anybody doing it is cavorting with the devil! Isn't that right James... ;o)