Spend 6 months of my life doing a 120 hour NLP practitioner course..

Now i read whispering in the wind and Grinder states that most of what i believe in is bullshit and that he made mistakes in the original coding?

Now i don't feel as confident about my knowledge base in NLP.. what is right.. what is wrong.. etc..

So now what?

I had a dream, a desire for a new career in being a speaker.. speaking about self help, NLP based theory, etc..

But now i must question my own understanding?

Annoying.

Isn't the whole point of NLP to constantly question your own understanding and constantly get better?

Did you want to spend 120 hours and then die?

dvs wrote:

Spend 6 months of my life doing a 120 hour NLP practitioner course..

Now i read whispering in the wind and Grinder states that most of what i believe in is bullshit and that he made mistakes in the original coding?

Now i don't feel as confident about my knowledge base in NLP.. what is right.. what is wrong.. etc..

So now what?

I had a dream, a desire for a new career in being a speaker.. speaking about self help, NLP based theory, etc..

But now i must question my own understanding?

Annoying.

Never stop questioning. Never stop observing. Never stop learning. Never stop following your bliss. Never trust what anyone teaches without adding a pinch of salt into the mix. Suspend disbelief only temporarily. Open your mind flaps but close them when appropriate. Many things are not what they seem.

Whenever there is a contradiction there are often hidden principles that are far far more interesting that what you thought you should be learning.

Maybe learn something different or look at what you have learned in a different way? What was really going on?

Thats the error i made.. putting all faith into the teachings..

I still desire to speak to audiences about self development and the things i do believe in..

dvs wrote:

Thats the error i made.. putting all faith into the teachings..

I still desire to speak to audiences about self development and the things i do believe in..

There was a line in frogs into princes that went "Everything we say is a lie". Well.. they weren't joking! In fact, that line was got me curious in the first place.. I don't think either of them are as refreshingly honest these days..

How do you know that the things you do believe in will actually help those you wish to? How do you know it won't be an error for them to put all their faith in your teachings?

For the record: everything I write on the forum is a lie, including this.

I didnt read that book.. hmm.. but my trainer did say that everything he said, was not true..

There is no way of knowing what is true and what isn't.. is there?

Who was your trainer Darren?

dvs wrote:

I didnt read that book.. hmm.. but my trainer did say that everything he said, was not true..

There is no way of knowing what is true and what isn't.. is there?

Not exactly. You can only determine through the mechanism of thought what is not true. Anything left standing may temporarily be considered possibly true for the time being. So in words you can only really state untruths reliably and truths very unreliably. So you can know what is untrue.

My definition of a fact is a piece of the world that makes somebody's explanation wrong. The most useful person to make wrong is yourself because then you have learned something and must change your explanation. When you are right its all very lovely but you haven't learned much. To do otherwise takes a strong stomach though and most don't have the guts!

The thinking processes "thing" the world to be able to think about it. It turns processes into an "event" or "love" etc which is not really a thing at all. Everything we "thing" about excludes the "no-thing" so most of the happening reality gets deleted in the process - i.e the whole truth. This is why you can't make a perfect decision with thought and people who do that a lot get tense (one way of cutting the thought process is to put tension in the body, to fixate or hold it).

Many people misunderstand the difference between fact and explanation. Someone on the forum the other day was claiming that if you got a 50 year old science book then most of the "facts" would be wrong. What he should have said was that most of the "explanations/theories" would be wrong now. The facts won't change or it wasn't a fact. A fact stated would be an observation plus the method of observing. So "when looked at through this type of microscope you see this shape." would count because that would be the same even much later. Why that shape is there is an explanation or theory. These have to change when new facts are observed that contradict the best current contender.

Most people's explanations of facts is way off but they don't care (they tend to conveniently exclude any that conflict). I had an interesting argument recently with a woman who worked in drug outreach service who was convinced that the heroin problem in Brighton was caused by the the university opening and the gays!

If you understand the nature of thought then you can learn to use it well otherwise you are likely to fall into the many traps.

The Dalai Lama was asked when in america "What would you do if science proved what you teach is wrong?" He answered "We would have to change our teachings". I really can't imagine the pope having the stomach for that!

dvs wrote:

There is no way of knowing what is true and what isn't.. is there?

What a fantastic question!!!

And if it took 120 hours for you to get to that point then it was money well spent.

Because, it is not just a question, it is something meaningful that will facilitate change for the rest of your life.

Well done.

The majority of people on this planet never get anywhere near to that point.

Now get on an answer it but not too quickly and pray to whatever God you support that rather than find the answer, you are blessed with 5 more questions of that quality.

dvs wrote:

But now i must question my own understanding

Precisely.

I envy you.

John

antiracist wrote:

Who was your trainer Darren?

For the purpose of maintaining my integrity and thiers, i would prefer not to say? Just in case i feel the need to speak openly about NLP related subjects and tarnish the name of they who trained me.

My practitioner certificate was countersigned by John Seymour however and the course was a thorough and intense one which incorporated the teachings of Classic code NLP combined with coaching skills.

The course was 100% free for me to do... as the aim of the project was to give NLP to a unit of people that couldn't afford NLP, but really wanted the knowledge..

I am one of the few that passed the examination and the only one to persue further a career in the feild..

Darren,

True. False. Right. Wrong. Somewhat binary concepts.

What if NLP isn't 'the truth', the absolute truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth? And what if New Code isn't either?

What if neither NLP nor New Code are (100%) 'right'?

What if both NLP and New Code are 'right' ... to some degree?

Or if neither are 'right' but both are useful?

What if NLP is really useful and New Code is simply more useful (or elegant, or reliable, or not) than Classic Code?

What if some of it is marketing positioning? (I'm not saying it is, but what happens when you read Michael Hall say, "Newest Code" is even more right still? Or the next guy? Or the next guy?)

Trust me - this isn't the last time your model of the world will be challenged by something you read. Hell, a lot of people think NLP is complete bollocks through and though.

I suspect you've been looking at NLP like it has a 'static rightness' about it. I suspect it'd be helpful for you to open your model of the world somewhat - to accept that what we know is neither fixed, nor complete but may very well be useful and relevant for the time we live in.

And we must of course, continue to learn.

As for your confidence with NLP today, let me ask you to do a task. Write down everything you learned on your course. And then put a ring round anything that stopped working when you read WITW.

Cheers

"But now i must question my own understanding?"
Of course you must question your own undrstanding. That's part of the process!

I'm reminded of a saying about Zen (not sure who said it) but it applies equally to any transformative process, such as NLP.

"When you know nothing about Zen, mountains are only mountains, trees are only trees, and men are only men. When you know anything about Zen, mountains are no longer mountains, trees are no longer trees, and men are no longer men. When you fully understand Zen, mountains are mountains again, trees are trees again, and men are men again."

Keep thinking about NLP and studying it. Suddenly things will become clearer. The "mountains will be mountains again" and you'll have a firm base for your career.

Good luck.

Ivor

In a way we make our own NLP as the material we're taught interacts with who we are and what we know (or think we know...... or think we are)

Yes DARREN the fire team massster!

How do you know if your able to help others with NLP?
What evidence will you have to get in order to know that your able to public speak and really make a difference?

When you go on your next NLP training,
How will you know the techniques actually work?

What is your primary question?
Do you want to learn JUST NLP or do you want to learn why people do what they do and how to change that?

This is a good experience, because now your able to ask a question
that is key to your learning. Not to mention, its a good story to tell your audience :P

BTW kudos to your passion, your going to make it.