I really like NLP, and cautious of it at the same time. I DO believe in the concept, that how the brain functions depends on how our neurons are wired. And language - body language, voice tone, emotional stories, humour, banter, etc - is an effective way to influence that "programming".

And I agree that this is how all effective communication works. (So kudos to Bandler and Grinder for jumping on that and putting a name on it, lol)

However, to me, the techniques involved in NLP have been disappointing and have not lived up to the great concept NLP is based on. Maybe this comes from being therapy/sales oriented, modeling "successful" people. I know NLP puts importance on emotional states but to me NLP techniques are still focused more on transferring ideas and benefits. If NLP claims to be about all communication, I'd like to see more emotional, charismatic aspects. Stuff that move people, naturally. NLP techniques tought in practioner courses come off very mechanical to me. And things like Swoosh patterns, Timeline stuff, 6-step reframing, etc haven't made much impact when I've tried them. I've watched trance stuff by Bandler who's supposedly the best in the world and very charismatic, and I've just found it boring and annoying.

Maybe for other, more social applications, NLPers should go back to the great concept of NLP to model charisma, social influence, attraction, etc with less focus on using techniques derived from therapists? What do you guys think?

p.s. don't mean to come off negative, but I also noticed that although you can argue that NLP explains how people operate through its concept, I don't see many succesfful, socially well known people who actually practiced NLP techniques to become successful, unless they're in therapy or sales training.

James,

To start with, may be you could provide details as to how exactly you tried out the patterns. Saying that none of the patterns work, will most probably fetch a lot of disagreements from other experienced practitioners here. Because, when a competent practitioner handles a pattern, it does work.

Have you sought the help of any practitoner who knows to work with all that stuff? I mean, personally? If you would try that, it could alleviate a lot of your difficulties.

One problem I have seen when people try out patterns for the first time, is that they don't give room for any flexibility and they don't try to understand what principle(s) operate behind the pattern. For example, if you take the Swish (or Swoosh, as you mentioned), one basic principle that underlies it is related to what sub-modalities are really suited for the particular person to work with. For some, it may be distance, for others, it may be spatial location and so on.

Without looking into that, people just try out the pattern laid down in some textbook, and then when they find out that they haven't got any positive result, they conclude that the pattern does not work.

A very useful question to ask oneself during such situations is, "What could have gone wrong?" and also, "Am I missing some important distinction here?". And if one would try to explore such possibilities, there is a strong possibility to arrive at the right answers.

James, was this an attempt to take up Chris Morris' challenge to use NLP strategies to make NLP seem less useful?

Taking it for what it's worth, it seems like you have a few questions or issues here, jumbled together. One seems to be "How do I get NLP techniques to work as advertised?" And another is, "Where do I find NLP material that addresses charisma in a social setting?"

An answer to question number one might be "Get some actual live training where an instructor can demonstrate correct technique and give you feedback on what you are doing."

An answer to question number two might be, "Search a little more, because the material is out there." I used to teach a course called "How to be a Megalomaniac" that addressed ideas of charisma and mass influence. It's been some years since I've taught one of those and the video set we produced from it is out of print (but you might find a used copy of it on ebay every now and then). Others have addressed these ideas, too, and perhaps some suggestions will appear here.

In the meantime, I'll give a couple short answers about charisma. One important idea is congruence. When all the parts of your communication (and your being) are aligned, your communication becomes much more compelling. This is a skill that can be practiced, but there's a short-cut, too: BE SINCERE and AUTHENTIC.

I also have some Meta-Magick techniques that can easily be applied to charisma (as well as other ends). I posted one example of such in the recent "Spinning Feelings" thread.

I never said none of the patterns worked, ever. How would I know that? And I'm not sure what you mean by Chris Morris' challenge. He's the site owner right?

I absolutely agree with the concept behind NLP itself, but still skeptical on the effectiveness of the practices. I'm going by the boastings of Richard Bandler btw... Seems more like quick temporary fixes and the basis seem more and more like a religious cult than scientific.

Well, I know that scientific method isn't perfect, but I'd rather spend more time on things that have been proven to cause things than not. But thanks for all your help so far. And I wish the best to all of you. Take care.