Hi all,

I have seen a lot of seminars with Richard Bandler - among those are "30 years of NLP" - and i think that he is a really cool and funny guy.

But it seems to me like he allways talks funny and tells stories, and never really teaches how to use NLP.

Am i the only one that feels this way?
Can anyone recommend a seminar that actually teaches you something?
And is Richard Bandler really just "for show" or can he actually say everything that he says?

Thanks!

Martin, sometimes I have similar reservations. He is fun to listen to and makes you laugh too. However, I can't say that I learn much in terms of techniques from watching the videos or listening to the tapes. However, his books are a lot different. I learn a lot from many of them.

I guess that the videos and audios are intended to install things in us unconsciously. However, if he has done that, I don't notice the difference in my life.

I remember listening to him talk about his health problems and wondering couldn't his mastery of hypnosis help him with those things? What about hs broken marriages? Why couldn't he make those work?

Same thing with Tony Robbins. His divorce. In the end what has he done with all this knowledge exact mass market NLP?

On the other hand, are we setting standards that are too high? Are we looking for a mystical guru and not just someone to learn a few things from?

Dasein

There's a recent content discussion here:

If You Watch Bandler Videos..

Hi Y'all

I recently attended a lecture by a guy called Docc Hilford. Docc rocked - totally blew me away. I learned loads from Docc that day - and beyond the basic learning, I reckon I have had an attitude shift since then.

Thing is, I have some DVD's with Docc Hilford on (which I have had for years). He never did a thing for me on DVD.

For me, it is the same with Richard - I don't really rate him on video or audio (Bandler Effect and Creating Therapeutic Change being exceptions for me), but live... that is something else.

I think that when you are there in the room, you are there. You are part of the experience. At home, you have other distractions and various familiar anchors around you.

Some have suggested that being a part of the audience that Richard is calibrating makes a big difference.

Another big difference is that in watching DVD's, you are not partaking in the exercises, and so are missing out key learning experiences.

But the big thing for me is just that the 'energy' is totally different. Richard is a master of managing the group 'dynamic' (I believe), and that is something that really doesn't translate out of the moment.

All that said, as an NLPer there is a phenomenal amount you can learn from watching Richard on DVD - model the man! Notice what he is doing! Take responsibility for your own learning rather than waiting to be drip-fed the info.

Anyhows, pretty much mostly, I think he can do the things he says.

Regarding divorce - sometimes people grow in different directions. If you could use NLP/Hypnosis to change that, would it really be a good thing to do so?

Regarding health - maybe Richard would be dead without his skills? Maybe they have improved his health phenomenally. Maybe his focus has been elsewhere at times:

"You can have anything you want in life, but you can't have everything"

And this is going to be true even if you are the best of the best.

Anyhows - instead of judging people against perfection, it can often be more illuminating to judge them by their achievements. But I'm sure that everyone on this forum is already aware of this... at least at some level;-).

be well, go well, do well

James

Deleted - weird duplication thing

If you want to watch Bandler and learn quickly --- one way is to pay attention to the structure of what he's saying, more-so than the content. The content is just to induce the state of mind necessary (entertainment for the conscious mind, and instructions FOR the unconscious mind)... the structure is 'how' "it's" happening. Often times you won't even know what "it" is... until you examine the structure of the communication.

Assume whatever you are watching for --- you're getting. It's not all about trusting what Bandler is saying --- it's about trusting your own intuition to derive meaning that benefits you from what you experience... are you confident in your ability to make good sense of nonsense? --- because that's what 'communication' is. Instead of wondering how accurate something he says or does might be --- realize it's an idea, and all of this stuff in NLP began as an idea too... so more importantly than is he actually -doing- something, is why do you believe he is? find all the reasons... see what happens when you apply it for yourself.

Have you ever watched his gestures? find associations with specific tonalities he uses, the ambiguities... the method of presentation... the demonstration of complete confidence no matter how ridiculous the issue... examine which loops are opened when, and when they're closed... what's between? --- the 'attitude' he uses to produce said results?

not easy to follow just by listening once. If you go to him live, it's much different than a recording --- as stated elsewhere, you have the rapport going far more strongly when you're there with him... he's working specifically with you, as well as others in the crowd... if you have recordings of him --- you have the benefit of repeat-watching... watching each time while in a different state of mind-- you'll notice new things every time. If you always watch it in the same way --- you'll get the same out of it.

If you're looking at what he's doing -by- what he's saying... (as opposed to -what- he's saying specifically)... it becomes more clear. A lot of storytelling is done to induce the state of ... 'duh/obvious/ simple... ' by pointing out the ignorance of someone else... and while in the state of mind of 'duh/obvious/simple', suggestions are given to be associated to the state of mind induce.

In my experience, that's all that's really necessary to produce most any kind of change... be it mental/physical/spiritual/emotional/whatever label you wanna slap on. Induce a state of mind that supports or even propels the suggestions being given --- and installation takes place naturally. It becomes obvious and simple when you think --- do you want your boss to give you a raise? Talk to him/her while they're in a good/generous mood, as opposed to when they're pissed off. Simple concepts, and often have been too simple to take for granted.

Make your communication induce the perfect state of mind, appropriate for the suggestions you're giving. Before you do the work, do the work. Be as direct or indirect as you like, just induce the state.

If Bandler has you wondering if he's doing something or he isn't --- that's a good state of mind for installation --- and probably why you're wondering. Now examine the structure to find out -what- is actually happening. It's funny but it seems so many people have overlooked doing that, and once you do you can start to get a sense of communication on multiple levels, holding multiple conversations on different levels simultaneously... but it usually doesn't come out sounding 'proper'... just a little odd.

Works though. Simplify. He gives all the instructions necessary, if you don't think so ... watch/listen again... until you find them. It's in there.

That's a vague statement --- instructions for what? --- because there's not a limitation until you apply one. Bandler is one of the few teachers who will express that, and know it enough to mean it.

In my own opinion, one can learn more about 'hypnosis' from observing Bandler than what people like to call NLP nowadays. But you'll also learn that whether you call it 'NLP' or 'hypnosis'... or 'reiki'... or 'magick'... or 'voodoo'... it all boils down to communication at some level... it's just what level can you set your mind to? --- and then --- sometimes --- can you communicate it to another so they can experience it the same way?

It's not so much about what Bandler is doing or isn't doing... it's the state of mind you're in while you're listening. Don't listen for words he says to teach you --- examine what he's doing. You know you're going to get the best material that way --- even if -you- made it up while you 'observed' him. But it really depends on what you want to do ... what are you wanting to learn?

do you want to just 'learn' NLP (i.e. Learn what already exists, and use that, and for what?)...

or do you want to understand 'NLP'? (So you can 'communicate' in your own unique way, amplifying your personal influence... creating... building onto the ideas and finding unique ones)

So to recommend a seminar in which he actually teaches you something --- I say all of them. If you have a list to choose from --- first decide what you'd like to learn --- then choose from the list, whatever you choose, accept it. That's the one you'll get something out of. Decide it. Enter a state of mind that is supportive of what you're about to do... and pay attention to 'what' is taking place, and not so much what is being said... not until you hear the 'specific' instructions. He usually slips those inbetween, and most people don't notice.

If you want a tranier that firstly demonstrates the techniques working on real members of the audience, then having proved that they just worked goes onto to then provide easily checkable evidence of the Celebrity and non celebrity clients that they have worked with and helped using the same technique prior to explaining in a simple step by step manner how and exactly why the technique works so that you can easily understand and also immediatly put the technique into use then I sugggest you seek out a trainer who offers a 100% One Year (365) day minimum money back guarantee which illustrates that they are confident and competent in what they do and claim to teach.

I'd also advise you to check that they have LOT's and I mean LOT's of easily checkable as 100% genuine testimonials from past happy students who are now SUCCESSFUL in the real world using the techniques they attended the course for which is further proof that they were both able to learn, understand and use them all easily.

Now I may be biased but there are very few trainers out there who fulfill these critera, one of the rare few is my fiancee, so yes I admit I may be a little biased but the Facts and evidence speak for themeselves at

[link removed]

Please don't spam the forum.

Richard's DVDs & Live Seminars are great entertainment and you will of course learn some things but I would say he is not the best 'Trainer' of NLP, there are few that have his knowledge, storytelling, & presenting skills; though many who can teach people far better than he can.

The best exponents do not necessarily make the best teachers. In Live Trainings I've been to & DVD's I've seen with him, basically it is him waffling on for hours going off at tangents akin to Billy Connolly live, he teaches many things but not that indepth and often does not stay on one subject for long. Compared to NLP Trainer staying on the subject, using power point presentation or slides, answering any queries raised, trying to teach and impart knowledge as opposed to entertaining, etc.

It would be akin to difference between say JK Rowling teaching a class on writing especially childrens stories compared to a professional English Professor who is an expert in the field and at teaching/lecturing, or Paul McCartney teaching Pop Music compared to a Professor in Music doing so.

There are many relatively unknowns especially compared to Richard Bandler that can teach NLP better than him in my opinion, even though as mentoned their knowledge is certainly not as strong as his, and they probably could not entertain and audience as much as him, and certainly not match his story telling or use of nested loops, etc.

There are many NLP students that will attach acres of meaning to every thing Bandler does or says when training, and think he is the greatest trainer ever, just like arty film students might attach acres of deep philosphical & social meaning to a film like 'Clockwork Orange'. Everyones view is different and they are entitled to their opinions.

If you really want to learn NLP I do not recommend Richard Bandler NLP courses, however if you have loads of money I would say go to them then go to a really good trainer preferably in smaller groups and really learn the subject, re do the same courses if you have the money to do so. That way you have the marketing & promotion blurp trained by Richard Bandler and you will be entertained at his courses and learn some things, but also really learn the subject indepth with a good trainer.

Richard Bandler one of best exponents & most knowledgable in NLP, as co creator he better be lol, not the best trainer. Robert Dilts I would say is a better trainer at actually teaching NLP than Richard, even though Dilts has poor presenting style and is very uncharasmatic. John La Valle is both uncharasmatic nor a great trainer, listen to his 32 CD Practitioner set the CD's would have been 16 but you get the bonus of added non essential waffle for another 16 CD's, the first one at least possibly two (while since I suffered them all) is chit chat with the audience absolutely pointless to include it maybe only done so it could be marketed as 'Complete' NLP Practitioner set.

I've never seen any DVD's by Richard Bandler where he specifically teaches any one thing on NLP well, and I've seen most of his. Great entertainment some of them anyway with storytelling, etc but to really learn NLP there are better tools out there.

If you watch all his DVD's and CD's there is great deal of gems of knowledge scattered across them but he has an awful lot of releases out there. In many of them 'Evening With' , '30 Years' , 'Class of a Master' , etc you get repitition (actually with variations on some) of stories about psychiatry , vistiting hospitals - the rubber snakes etc, Sickman Freud, etc but not a lot of pure educational NLP teaching you the tools. When he demonstrates NLP on people it is typically the easiest people or conditions on which to do it on - fear of public speaking, etc.

Many will say he is the greatest Trainer of NLP in the world, his courses are the best to learn NLP from, and his books & DVD's the best to learn from also but I just don't see it at all. Also I've honestly yet to meet one person that came away from a Training with him that really learnt a lot, especially people knew to the field knowing little beforehand. People I've met that know a lot on NLP that did trainings with him studied a lot themselves before doing so or afterwards, went on the training were hugely entertained learnt some things and ways to do some techniques and saw him demonstrate them, then recommended him as the best trainer and his courses the best.

Well said Sally I could'nt agree more with every word you have said!

I have only watched some youtube material with Bandler, and heard opinons about him from other NLPers, so this will taint my judgement of course.

No matter how good the material in a book is, it will be useless to those who either won't bother reading the whole book, or is not caught up enough in it to actually take it all in.

Like Tony Robbins, what he gives people is more of an experience than material. I don't think all his stories are "true" per se. But he is a charismatic and likeable individual and as long as you are not just an empty barrel, that is really important, because people are more likely to be changed from what he teaches. My experience with NLP coaches is that they put emphasis on creating an atmosphere that promotes change, and that is more important than crude honesty. They tell magnificent stories, and although I can't verify them, I choose to believe them and be taken in by them, because I know that if that is what they do, they must have good intent behind it, because they WANT me to do what I came there for, change.


Can he all the things he says he can do? No, probably not. But if you decide to spend money and time in his material and his teachings, choose to believe him, and enter his world. After all, that is what you came there for. See if it helps you.